ColonizationOne in three people on r/actuallesbians is a transgender woman (demographic survey results)

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[–]reluctant_commenter 28 insightful - 2 fun28 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 2 fun -  (16 children)

edit(3): 23% 31% of people on AL are lesbians, by our definitions (according to this one survey, also people could've lied about their answers, disclaimers yada yada)

edit4: UPDATE: I found two mistakes in my code, sorry. It's 31%, not 23%. I have edited every other number I provided that was affected by these mistakes, except the "other" categories which are too small to make a noticeable difference.

I here define "real/actual lesbian" as a person who defines themself as 1. a cisgendered woman who in no way identifies as trans, and 2. a lesbian/homosexual/gay individual (who may also identify themself as "sapphic" or "queer" but not any of the other survey options such as "bisexual").

This comment has turned into an absolute mess, organization-wise. I think I might try to write it up in a cleaner format but I'll leave this comment as it is for now. If you see a mistake or think I made a mistake in my definitions, PLEASE let me know! :)

Mistakes I made that have now been corrected:

  • I accidentally excluded lesbians who marked "queer" in addition to "lesbian". (Accounted for like 100ish people.)

  • I accidentally excluded lesbians who marked "homosexual" or "gay" instead of "lesbian". (Accounted for like 20ish people.) E.g. if someone marked only "homosexual", but not "lesbian", and otherwise met the criteria for being a "real/actual lesbian", I now include them in "real/actual lesbian" numbers, i.e. that 31% number.

[original comment follows]

I am trying to get some more insights out of these numbers and am struggling, because these definitions mean nothing when you can mark multiple definitions that conflict with each other. Will edit/comment with more if I find anything.

edit: Ahhhhh we can actually figure it out! Excel spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RUJWhbARmvOMx7BEKWhkJ1Y-yjxMG8uJG7rvMLxZI70/edit#gid=1924215074

I'll be back in a little bit after some data analysis, lol.

edit2: All right!! Took me an hour but I've finally sorted the data into a manageable form. If anyone else is interested in making some graphs, I can try to figure out a way to share a re-organized CSV file.

Stuff I've found so far:

C1: How many people marked "cis woman" without marking ANY other options?

  • Most people who marked "cisgender woman" did not mark any other gender category.

  • 12% of those who marked "cisgender woman" DID mark another gender category, implying they are or may be transgender-identified. (137, out of 1126 total who marked "cisgender woman").

C2: How many people who marked "lesbian" are NOT strictly cisgender women?

  • 64% of the sample marked "lesbian". (1160, out of 1803 total in the sample)
  • 55% of those who marked "lesbian", or 35% total, only marked "cisgender woman" and did not mark any transgender or questioning option. (633, out of 1160 who marked lesbians and 1803 total in the sample)
  • Takeaway: About 45% of those in AL who self-identified on the survey as "lesbian", also marked (or questioning/other, I included those as 'not cis'). So, almost half (45%) of the lesbians in AL are trans, according to this survey. Very interesting.

C3: How many people marked "lesbian" without marking ANY other options?

(Or in other words, how many "bisexual lesbians" are there on AL, "asexual lesbians", etc.)

Breakdown: Of those who marked "lesbian", ___ % also marked...

  • 38% marked no other sexual orientation. (435 people; represented 24% of the total sample, 435/1803)
  • 9% "bisexual"
  • 4% "pansexual"
  • 11% AT LEAST ONE of "bisexual" and "pansexual".
  • 6% "asexual"
  • 0.3% "heterosexual". (4 people total-- lol.)
  • 30% "sapphic"
  • 32% "queer"
  • 24% "homosexual"
  • 37% "gay"
  • 2% "other"

Why do I give a shit, you ask? Because I'm a fucking nerd.

Figured I'd post these numbers in case anyone else was curious. If you have a specific request for stats, let me know lol. The numbers I posted are just a few I was curious about. Unfortunately we don't have a breakdown like this for r/AGB or anything, that I'm aware of.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 32 insightful - 4 fun32 insightful - 3 fun33 insightful - 4 fun -  (11 children)

So only 24% are actually lesbians on ActualLesbians? And part of them are not "cis women".

[–]reluctant_commenter 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Well, it could actually be a little higher than that, because if you marked "lesbian", you could mark "homosexual" or "gay" and that would still make sense. I suppose "sapphic" also technically does not conflict with the definition of "lesbian" as we define it, though most here don't call themselves that.

I'll go check, good question.

edit: Actually it's 23% 31%. These are people who marked only cisgender woman, not trans; and only lesbian/gay/homosexual (and if they marked sapphic I left them in too).

The survey suggests that 23% 31% of AL are actual lesbians, and 36% 48% of the self-described "AL lesbians" are actual lesbians.

edit2: I updated my numbers, see above, sorry for the mistake!

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

For some reason sapphic is used instead of bisexual nowadays (it means "i like women and transwomen with penises, but not cis men"), while it always was just synonymous with lesbian.

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 13 insightful - 10 fun13 insightful - 9 fun14 insightful - 10 fun -  (1 child)

It means: "I got a serious problem with the opposite sex and prefer men in dresses"

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 9 insightful - 7 fun9 insightful - 6 fun10 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

With your description it sounds like a kink!

[–]reluctant_commenter 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Yeah, "sapphic" is now supposed to mean "anyone who is attracted 'anything but men', who is 'anything but a man'".

I did not know it used to be synonymous with lesbian, that's interesting. I actually quite like it as a word. :) Now they are trying to change the word "lesbian" to mean bisexual, too.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Well, you know, both words even have the same origin. From same person and same place.

[–]reluctant_commenter 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Ah, that's obvious now you say it haha. I was wondering why "lesbian" was decided to be same-sex-attracted-only but "sapphic" wasn't. When actually they both were, originally.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Lesbian was more wide-spread, I suppose? It is same like with "gender" and other synonymous words, that are now "reclaimed" to mean something entirely different, or in general to mean nothing.

As most of those explanations explain nothing. Like Sapphic means - woman (female), non-binary woman (male or female), or transwoman (male) that are liking other women (females), non-binary women (males or females), or transwomen (males). So in general it is something like "anyone who have some stereotypical feminine traits who is loving anyone else with some stereotypical feminine traits". So basically it is "bisexual with preferences on looks and behaviour". However, everyone have preferences on their partners - someone likes taller partners, someone likes blonde, etc. So there no reason to add so many new words to describe every single preference and kink.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Completely agree. I hope we are able to reclaim "sapphic" for its original meaning after the transgender rights movement blows up in the mainstream.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yep. Look up the word sapphism you'll get definitions and synonyms that say things like lesbianism, female homosexuality, etc.

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

TIL. That's too bad they changed the definition of that word.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I like you. And lol @ heterosexual lesbians. Maybe that's self-awareness on the part of the transbians?

[–]reluctant_commenter 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I like you too :)

Yeah I was actually wondering that haha. Alternatively, I suppose a heterosexual male might have been like "sure I'm a lesbian" and also marked "questioning". Or a few people could've just accidentally marked it. Who even knows at this point.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Unsurprisingly your analysis of how many of the voters are actual lesbians is pretty consistent with the percentage of people who checked off both lesbian and homosexual. Only the gender crew are trying to make that a bad word instead of an accurate descriptor.

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Interesting, I didn't notice that before. That actually may be the explanation for that similarity. I'll take a look.

edit: I think it might have just been a superficial similarity. The updated number includes people who are cisgender female, homosexual/gay/lesbian (marked at least one of those), AND could have optionally marked "sapphic" or "queer" as well. Initially, I had accidentally filtered out anybody who marked "queer", which missed about 100-ish people, bumping the number to 31% (from 23%).

[–]luckystar 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What is the actual rate of trans people? Like 0.5%? How can they make a space where they are so dominant and not feel like something is off? Are they not capable of self reflection?

[–]reluctant_commenter 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I honestly think most trans people do not have an accurate sense of how few trans people there are.

Anecdotally-- a psych professor I took a class with told me that some of her students would demand to know survey data for trans people. She would tell them, "It is really hard to get data on trans people because there are so few." And they would be like, "But there are so many! I see them all online / on Tumblr!"

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I honestly think there are a bunch of people on tumblr / the internet are faking being trans for internet points or being trans so they can live vicariously online.

[–]Astrid2448 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

How are there THAT MANY white people? I doubt any of the other subreddits have such an extreme ratio

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It makes their using "trans women of color" as a battering ram even more disgusting.

[–]reluctant_commenter 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean, Reddit is really white, right? I think 80% is pretty par for the course for Reddit, but I could be wrong.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

How many do you think put themselves as "cis"

[–]reluctant_commenter 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah I was wondering that too. If you're curious, I can try to check and see how many people marked "cis" and ALSO marked a trans option, as a way to partially answer that question.

But, there's no way of telling who marked "cis" only and is actually trans. I think it's fair to say most people were probably honest though, since you get street cred from identifying as trans anyway.

edit: 12% of those who marked "cisgender woman" DID mark another gender category, implying they are or may be transgender-identified. If you take out those who marked "questioning", it's 6% (marked "cisgender woman" and also marked some other trans category).