Women's IssuesApparently Trans women pose no threat to women, but we pose a threat to them if we don't include them.

submitted by turtleduck23 from (theguardian.com)

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[–]CJLez 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Archive link if you don't want to give TG clicks.

as a straight girl

Oh, please share your wisdom on LGBT issues as a straight women.

If trans people live in peace and legal recognition and even have rights, there will be terrible consequences

I've not seen one person here say that trans people shouldn't 'live in peace' but, as the saying goes, your right to swing your fist ends at my face. Keeping prisons and hospital wards sex-segregated (I would whole-heartedly support a third space option for people who don't want to pick their birth sexes space) should be a right.

I assume that we here have long realized, at least to some extent, that dreaded future, and we’re all fine.

I'm fine. The documented women (and children) who have been raped by transwomen in prisons and hospitals and bathrooms might not be feeling very 'fine' though.

trans women do not pose a threat to cis-gender women

Proven false many times. Are most a threat? No. Could attacks be almost eliminated if same-sex spaces were upheld? Yes.

you can’t be a feminist if you’re not for everyone’s human rights, notably other women’s rights.

It's called feminism. Not womanism. A young girl undergoing FGM or child mariage who (hypothetically) identifies as male is always going to be a more feminist issue than anything to do with transwomen is.

the major threat to women, straight or not, cis- or not, always was and still is straight men and patriarchy.

It's called male violence. Not men violence.

It’s no coincidence the American right is obsessed with border walls and with airtight gender definitions

The American left (speaking broadly) is much more obsessed with airtight gender definitions than the right is at the moment. Oh, you like dolls? You're a transwoman. Like sports? Transman.

When there is so much real violence against women, it’s a sad waste of time to focus on imaginary maybe presumably it-could-theoretically-happen violence.

It. Has. Already. Happened. Many. Times.

insisting they use men’s bathrooms endangered them horribly

If a transwoman is too scared to use the male bathroom because of being around biological men then it is equally allowed for women to be scared of a transwomen in the female bathroom because they are biologically male.

black trans women are murdered at a horrific rate, generally by cis-gender men.

How about the black US women murdered at a horrific rate? Oh, would that be because it's so common that it doesn't make international news every time? Would that be because black women (esspecially sex workers and those who are in lower-income environments) aren't seen as pure enough or good enough victims to care about?

There’s also a hullabaloo about young people choosing to be trans who may change their minds. I’m sure they exist. Also, we all know they’re rare, and that people are not trying on genders like they were Halloween costumes, because this is not easy for them.

...Tumblr?

in those early cases parents and medical experts tend to be exceedingly careful about how those decisions are made

By prescribing off-label drugs that cause IQ drops, facial bone damage, prevent them from ever being able to physically mature and by performing hysterectomies on teenagers? Sure. Sounds exceedingly careful to me.

some of us are born with absent or divergent personal parts, or with chromosomal or hormonal anomalies

As someone who struggled with bad hirsutism for two decades - Fuck you and fuck the horse you rode in on. Growing up with opposite secondary sex characteristics is horrible and I'm still self-concious every day and I'm sick of people saying 'some women have facial hair / broad shoulders / very small breasts / are super tall / have very large feet' as an example of why transwomen are women. It just proves that you don't consider us real women or you wouldn't have made the argument. You see us as being practically identical to males. Thanks.

patrolling bathrooms against trans women has led to some nonconforming cis-gender women being harassed and humiliated

If someone is uncomfortable with me being in a bathroom I won't be humiliated, I'll laugh it off and say that I'm a woman. Stop using butches as a prop for your arguments.

This turned out a lot longer than I meant it to but it has been a long time since I saw an article that fucking dreadful.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

some of us are born with absent or divergent personal parts, or with chromosomal or hormonal anomalies

As someone who struggled with bad hirsutism for two decades - Fuck you and fuck the horse you rode in on. Growing up with opposite secondary sex characteristics is horrible and I'm still self-concious every day and I'm sick of people saying 'some women have facial hair / broad shoulders / very small breasts / are super tall / have very large feet' as an example of why transwomen are women. It just proves that you don't consider us real women or you wouldn't have made the argument. You see us as being practically identical to males. Thanks.

Fucking amen to this! I'm a guy with an intersex disorder. I've been unusually feminine/androgynous all my life and it's not something I can "correct." It's not going away and it's caused me a lot of stress throughout my life, from self esteem issues (because I feel different to everyone else, that I don't fit in, that I am a freak) to sexual harassment from males who either think I'm female, or chase after me because they have a kink for feminine males thanks to their shitty hentai. People assume that my "girliness" is weakness, that I'm incapable and stupid, and there are even people who still believe that having a condition like mind makes you "retarded." I'll have to deal with that all my life. Unlike a trans "gender identity" i CANNOT just wake up and decide "I identify as a normal male now" and fix it. Even if I took HRT it wouldn't reverse all the anomalies, I'd still have wide hips and a feminine body structure, and from what I know I'd most likely just end up with the same problems that FTMs get from long term testosterone use.

TRA arguments such as "some people are born with DSDs and thus they are a third sex" literally is just them saying they don't see people like me as males, but as "others", a dehumanizing and alienating category. You know, the same category I get placed into when people mock me for being too "girly" or ask me if I'm a hermaphrodite. Unlike privileged people who identify as "nonbinary" because they're bored, this category is NOT good. It basically means society sees you as lesser.

And they do this with black women, too. And infertile women, and disabled women. They're trying to push the idea that sex is irrelevant and in the process, implying that having a DSD, a disability, infertility or being black makes you less of a woman. Never forget that

[–]reluctant_commenter 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

THANK YOU for this reply. Satisfying to read and a really good breakdown.

I'm sick of people saying 'some women have facial hair / broad shoulders / very small breasts / are super tall / have very large feet' as an example of why transwomen are women. It just proves that you don't consider us real women or you wouldn't have made the argument. You see us as being practically identical to males. Thanks.

I never thought of it this way. But I've been lucky enough to not have to think of it that way. Having hirsutism sounds really tough, I'm sorry you had to deal with that for so long.

If someone is uncomfortable with me being in a bathroom I won't be humiliated, I'll laugh it off and say that I'm a woman. Stop using butches as a prop for your arguments.

1000% agree. Funny, NO ONE cared about GNC people til it became convenient to use them as an example in their trans debates.

[–]CJLez 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks - Normally I'm fine with it nowadays, I've accepted that it's just the way I was born and that there are much worse things I could have instead so it doesn't bother me anywhere near as much as it did in my teens and twenties - but this article had me feeling some kind of way.

[–]BigMommyMilkersYes, they're real 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for the summary.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not surprised that this person is from San Francisco. That city is a magnet for all of these degenerates.

[–]julesburm1891 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I went to my first gay bar when I was about 14.

Where were your parents?

Transphobes are always warning us that if trans people live in peace and legal recognition and even have rights, there will be terrible consequences.

Name one solitary legal right trans people don’t have. (Wants that infringes on others’ rights do not count as a right.)

[Y]ou can’t be a feminist if you’re not for everyone’s human rights.

Supporting a definition of a human rights that directly clashes with women’s rights means you are not a feminist.

This complexity and fluidity can be a blessing and it’s something feminism embraced when it demanded that “woman” not be a category so tightly defined by roles, relationships, appearances, and limits.

Funny how transwomen’s definition of womanhood seems to revolve entirely around roles, relationships, appearances, and limits, isn’t it? Funny how that’s actually the entire model of gender for TRAs.

[M]en who want to harm women could dress up as women, but they could also pretend to be repairmen or emergency workers to get into our home and actually have.

Straw Man for days. The issue at hand is that men can self-ID as trans, not even dress up as a woman, and perv on women in single-sex spaces. This deprives women of the right to have men like this removed from women’s spaces. It is not the same as a a predator disguised as a repairman. Women can still have that man prosecuted.

Patriarchy would like gender to be fixed...

Huh, like the strict gender and sexuality roles TRAs advocate?

...and a lot of it’s violence is punishment of women who aren’t submissive enough...

You mean those nasty TERFs?

...men who aren’t straight enough...

Like, actual homosexual men?

...and anyone else who steps out of line.

Those horrible LGB people protecting their right to be same-sex attracted and not associating with a toxic social movement?? The horror.

There are about 4 billion women and girls on the planet and we are not in danger of being erased.

So, I can say that PCOS and cervical cancer and women’s health issues? I can say that a uterus is a female organ? I can address sex-based oppression globally? Oh, wait. I can’t? Odd how that works.

[T]he US supreme court [sic] ruled that trans rights and queer rights are protected rights in the workplace.

Ahh, yes. Please continue to call LGB people queer.

What a dreadfully written and argued piece.

[–]hellonumpty 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

One of the arguments about JKR's trans essay was that it wasn't her place as a straight woman speak on behalf of what lesbians were OK with, or the relationships between trans women and lesbians, which made me laugh because TRAs have always been fine with their straight feminist allies harassing lesbians on their behalf for not liking dick and whatnot. And I bet they wont tell the straight woman who wrote this article to 'stay in her lane' either.

[–]CJLez 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Even funnier - I looked at the twitter responses to this and found a screenshot of the author saying that it was written about 'she-who-must-not-be-named' but that she didn't name JK in the article because she didn't want to be sued.

[–]ThiccDropkickGay 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know what's worse, the "transfolk are perfect and you're just making it all up" or the whole article torpedoing into the tired old "all my problems and yours are caused by straight white men"