LGB HistoryHow did the LGB acronym expand so fast?!

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[–][deleted] 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Because activist groups and nonprofits experienced a sudden and massive slump looming following legalization of gay marriage. Overnight I saw the HRC shift entirely to these bizarre niche interest groups and their "rights", taking on more and more extremists and people with views utterly detached from reality. The same is true of every other kind of group - and as acceptance increases overall more and more of these things suffer entryism due to lack of gatekeeping.

I think it's two things: 1. The cash cow running out, 2. Entryism from lack of gatekeeping. Of course gatekeeping is a fickle thing. You can ruin yourself by gatekeeping the wrong thing, effectively eliminating any power you might've had. But in this case, I think, we were too accepting.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Do you have any resources you can point me to to show the switch being flipped and the timeline it happened on? I'm very interested in this from a historical perspective and a legal perspective, and really a historical legal perspective. There have been so many code switches that people have whiplash and don't remember it wasn't always this way.

[–]BEB 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

There's a UK professor who has done a lot of work on showing how LGB funding and organizations has been subsumed by the T. He includes charts. If I find his name and work I will post it.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Awesome thanks!!

[–]BEB 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

OK, the UK professor's name is Michael Biggs. Biggs has done invaluable work showing how the LGBT organizations focus has changed from gays to transgenders, including very informative charts.

He includes Stonewall, GLAAD, HRC, etc. You will be shocked at how the T have taken become the main focus of LGBT orgs.

I don't know how to link so please type "Michael Biggs" and "LGBT FACTS AND FIGURES" into a search engine. Pls let me know if that doesn't work.

[–]BEB 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I haven't found the UK professor yet but I will look tonight.

I did find the title of the NEW YORK TIMES article and have posted further down on this thread. It's "Once a Pariah, Now a Judge: The Early Transgender Journey of Phyllis Frye" and the author's name is Deborah Sontag. Type that into a browser and the article should come up.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not really, no, not least of which because beyond certain circles nobody dares speak of it. Maybe others have opinion articles that bothered to cite examples but I don't think I've ever seen a chart. I can only relate what I believe I saw, I fear, until someone knuckles down and does something rigorous. Or has the energy to. I fear I do not.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So I think we all know the answer to a certain extent is desire for $$$ and to repurpose allies to be in-community members to bolster ranks, but if anyone is aware of resources that talk about this from a historical perspective, I would love to read that.

I am sick of seeing the forced teaming of sexual orientation and gender. They do not make sense. T only made sense when it was just a small number of homosexual transsexuals who also needed same-sex rights. It wasn't about "gender." It was always about sex. Transbians could always marry women as males and females could always get married. Transbian AGPs didn't seek to become the sole face of the LGBT community until after LGB had reached critical levels of acceptance in the west when they could get some social power out of calling themselves "lesbians."

[–]BEB 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I couldn't reply to you above, because I had already replied, but I posted the title of the New York Times article where trans activists admit that the targeted the gay rights movement in order to boost transgender "rights" on this thread, so you should be able to find it by looking for my posts.

Here's another one, "How Did the T get in LGBT?" Salon.com 10/8/07 It should pull up easily.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I can compare it with an analogy to Islam. Back when the Ottoman Empire existed, there was a thing called the Caliphate (you can think of it sort of like the Vatican and The Pope. They are organized and control everything about Catholic Religion, they are the ultimate authority. And the Caliphate was the same for Islam.) Once the Ottoman Empire was finished the new leader, (I believe a closeted atheist?) abolished the Caliphate, and splintered Islam into many different pieces. Now you can see different factions of Islam doing wildly different things in different countries, and no country or faction can agree on what's right and what's wrong. Nobody knows what is "true Islam" and what isn't. It's a many-headed hydra pulling in a million directions.

And it is the same with LGBOMGWTFBBQ+ there is no "ultimate leader" like a pope or a caliph (or an elected president) there is no committee to decide what is official and what isn't. This allows literally teenagers on Tumblr to make shit up, (like Demisexual) and turn it into a "Valid" sexuality. It's complete mob rule. There is no LGBT official boss to stand up and say "no!"

We here on droptheT could organize and make up a new sexuality or gender and mobilize on social media apps with flags and angry little paragraphs and everything and create a whole new thing and force it into existence, that's how easy it is. You just have to have a narcissistic, dishonest sort of personality to be able to do it without feeling shitty about yourself afterwards.

Just like Islam and all the bullshit fan-fiction style hadiths that come from any mullah with an ounce of authority, LGBT+ is the exact same, except you don't even have to be a mullah, all you need is your social media, and your delusion, and enough followers, and you can even make potatosexual "VaLiD." It is internet mob rule, and clueless outsiders like the traditional media (newspapers, CNN, etc) who are fueling the flames and legitimizing children's fantasies.

[–]fuck_reddit 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because they used Fabian tactics. They made a tone of very slight changes and additions over the past ~25 years that have resulted in the titanic shift that everyone has only recently woken up to. As ABlueSkilttle also pointed out, the legalization of gay marriage in the US also created a panic in US groups and a 'need' for more cash (and therefore, new "civil rights" issues). They then tacked these new interest groups on as letters to the more accepted LGB and established T.

[–]BEB 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There was an article in the New York Times with interviews of pioneer transgender activists in which the trans activists boast about how transgenders glommed onto the gay rights movement in order to take advantage of gay rights' organizations, groundwork and funding.

The chutzpah of the transgender activists, and their open admission that they used the gay rights movement, was mind blowing. If I can find the link I will post it.

tl;dr transgender activists very deliberately used the gay rights movement

[–]BEB 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Here's the article from the New York Times in which transgender activists Phyllis Fry and Mara Keisling, talk about how transgender activists forced transgender rights into the gay rights movement in order to take advantage of gays' larger numbers, funding and better organization.

"Once a Pariah, Now a Judge: The Early Transgender Journey of Phyllis Frye" New York Times, August 30 2015 - sorry, don't know how to link.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Click the 'formatting help' text under the comment field.

article

Thanks for the article. Very enlightening indeed...

[–]BiHorror 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

As others were saying, alongside with the whole attitude of some wanting to be "accepting" of those "non accepted" by big evil "het-cis" society. Also, excuse me for being not so smart, but which acronym is a slur?

[–]Willpoll 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Queer was used as a slur quite a lot. It was only till the late 90s/ early 2000s really that it stopped being seen as a slur by society. Many people still do consider it to be however

[–]BiHorror 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

OH, shit, I forgot about that one. I thought they made a brand new acronym. Yeah, I can see why some would still dislike it. Probably even more, which I wouldn't be surprise, due to the TQ+ using it to mean whatever they're trying to identify it with now.

[–]GayNotQueer 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Blame the drag queens -- in the 1970s, lesbians spoke up saying that many (not ALL, especially lesbians in smaller burbs) didn't like to be termed as part of the "gay community" so in deference, it was thereafter referred to as the gay and lesbian community. Then bisexuals asked to be included, creating the LGB community. Drag queens then demanded to be included even though drag is not a form of expression of sexuality (and this, alas, went unchallenged), creating the acronym, LGBT. This set the stage for the T, which stood for "transvestites", to be, in Orweillian fashion, taken over by TRAs and said the represent transsexuals.

We know the rest of the story and the creation of the ever-zanier alphabet people who regular folks are evermore critical of, one even saying, "You know, dear, we love you to bits but just how many more letters of the alphabet do you think you will need?"

My answer? None. Three will do, and the alphabet people can do as they will. Expect more pushback.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Basically, LGB caved in when we should have stood firm, knowing that we were not the same as transgendered people but we didn’t.

Here is a good article from Salon, dated 2007, that is entitled:

How did the T get in LGBT?

The 30-year fight for a federal gay civil rights law may fail because activists insist on including rights for transgendered people too. Has gay inclusiveness gone too far too fast?

I have a sense that over the past decade the trans revolution was imposed on the gay community from outside, or at least above, and thus it never stuck with a large number of gays who weren't running national organizations, weren't activists, or weren't living in liberal gay enclaves like San Francisco and New York. Sure, many of the rest of us accepted de facto that transgendered people were members of the community, but only because our leaders kept telling us it was so.

A lot of gays have been scratching their heads for 10 years trying to figure out what they have in common with transsexuals, or at the very least why transgendered people qualify as our siblings rather than our cousins.

It's a fair question, but one we know we dare not ask. It is simply not p.c. in the gay community to question how and why the T got added on to the LGB, let alone ask what I as a gay man have in common with a man who wants to cut off his penis, surgically construct a vagina, and become a woman. I'm not passing judgment, I respect transgendered people and sympathize with their cause, but I simply don't get how I am just as closely related to a transsexual (who is often not gay) as I am to a lesbian (who is).

Is it wrong for me to simply ask why?

https://www.salon.com/2007/10/08/lgbt/

[–]Some-unoriginal-guy 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it's a lost cause, that's why there was a need to create the Lgb group, right?

[–]AnokiFrench 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This community has become a melting pot of everything and anything even if it has no sense to join it