DiscussionWhy are lesbians more compliant with TRA than gay men?

submitted by rouge_tropical from self.LGBDropTheT

Just compare actuallesbians and askgaybros. Actuallesbians is all about inclusion, "transbians are valid", TWAW, while guys on AGB don't give a shit and can say they couldn't date transmen without being banned for "transphobia".

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[–]PassionateIntensity 81 insightful - 2 fun81 insightful - 1 fun82 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

There are no lesbians on /actuallesbians so that's a terrible example. Everyone who objected to TWAW was banned. But outside of that-- threats of violence. Lesbians have been beaten by trans identified males and their female Aunt Lydias. At least one lesbian couple was murdered. There's ZERO support from the so-called LGBT community for lesbians. You shut the fuck up, or they destroy your life: ostracize you, get you fired, potentially beat you, maybe even end your life.

[–]writerlylesbian 51 insightful - 4 fun51 insightful - 3 fun52 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Yep, all these issues. All the way back in the mid-2000s when the war over Michfest was raging, there were so many lesbians who got sent death threats and rape threats, who had their businesses destroyed, who got ostracised, who lost their jobs. Big silence from the GBT, no fucks given from most of the feminist organisations at the time. And it's basically been going on the same way since then.

[–]Archie 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Can you please share a source for that murdered lesbian couple? Dear lord...

[–]julesburm1891 58 insightful - 3 fun58 insightful - 2 fun59 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

  1. Socialization: Women are socialized to be nice and make others comfortable our entire life. It’s not surprising lesbians were initially nice to transwomen.

  2. Reactions to Women Breaking Socialization Norms: Watch how you and everyone else around reacts the next time you see a woman voice frustration with someone. (Hint: it will probably involve her being called a bitch, being called crazy, and/or being mocked. It doesn’t matter if she was totally in line or no one would bat an eye if a guy did the same thing.) A lot of times we will bite our tongues even if we’re furious or sick of something because we don’t want to deal with the fallout.

  3. Harassment/Threats: Tbh, I don’t know what happens after gay guys shut down trans shit online. What often happens after lesbians do it is that we get graphic rape and death threats in our inbox. What always happens is that we’re banned from the sub.

  4. Actual Violence: Trans people love to complain that people misgendering them is literal violence. Women (lesbian or otherwise) who stand up to trans nonsense irl face actual violence. Whether it’s meetings being attacked, spaces being vandalized, or women be assaulted, it’s real and scary. There’s also the risk that we’ll lose our jobs.

  5. Insidious Transwomen: A couple of weeks ago, someone posted a terrorism manifesto (I don’t know what else to call it) from a transwoman obsessed with Vancouver Rape Relief. One of the strategies he encouraged was infiltrating groups. Basically: get one transwoman or one ally into a group’s leadership and use them to get more and more people in leadership roles. Then use this power to kick out the original women the group was for. I absolutely believe this is exactly what happened with AL along with pretty much every other lesbian or LGB space. Change my mind.

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 28 insightful - 2 fun28 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Point number 5 is exactly what happened to AL

[–]Maeven 25 insightful - 2 fun25 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I think infiltration has been their MO for everything. And its why they are paranoid about maintaining ideological purity. They're afraid of infiltrators because they know how easy it is and because that hold on power is more tenuous that in looks. They can only maintain power through fanaticism and suppression of people with independent thoughts.

[–]julesburm1891 25 insightful - 2 fun25 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I don’t want to sound like a nutcase, but here it goes. I finished reading The Cultural Revolution: A People’s History by Frank Dikötter today and so much felt familiar. I’m not saying that the trans rights movement is equivalent to Maoist China or that our setbacks are equivalent to the horrors the Chinese people went through. I am saying that the radicalization, the denial of facts, the desire to tear down any institution that didn’t reinforce their narrative, the obsession of ideological purity, the witch hunts, the use of violence on dissenters, and the public humiliation of people who fell out of line sounds exactly like the climate of the trans movement.

[–]notdelusionalbased faggot 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There are significant overlaps with queer theory and other critical theories. Maoism, marxism, it's all sort of inherited. Look at the BLM stuff, it's no mistake that the trans thing is front and center. Creepy as fuck.

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It sound like islam. That's how cult works.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

So basically like every other cheater, they don't want their own methods used against them.

Seems like strict vetting, webs of known relationships, members sponsoring other members, and forming private clubs are going to be necessary for a while, as non-inclusive as that sounds. We are way past "this is why we can't have nice things" with this going on. Assuming it's set up correctly, it appears that you can't bitch about who gets into a private club. Don't like someone else's? Make your own. Indiscriminate inclusiveness can be exploited (without even trying) and isn't always suitable for that reason.

Time to deploy some firewalls. Really. No means no.

Interesting stuff at these links, but I don't know what tangled webs of laws and precedents any particular group would have to navigate to try to bulletproof themselves, because you know the TRAs would take them straight to court no matter what, since they have to stick their dicks in every place they are not wanted:

  1. https://law.jrank.org/pages/5315/Club-Protecting-Civil-Rights.html

  2. https://www.workforcebulletin.com/2012/03/09/for-private-clubs-a-little-discrimination-in-membership-can-go-a-long-way/

This conversation is one that should have stopped being necessary after the 1950s. But perhaps these methods can bring some semblance of freedom of association back because ultimately, the abuses going on in these videos should qualify as a violation of civil rights, here in the US at least. Nobody is stopping TRAs from going and doing their own thing. They don't have to see every women's space as a scarce resource to be grabbed and absconded with, but since they do, no more access for them. Reconstitute, reconfigure, resurrect.

Wonder how they are when they're guests at someone's house. With this mentality I would assume they arrive and are immediately holding up the owners to transfer title to them. This is very mafia-like in some ways. What's next, demanding protection money to keep their own kind out of women's spaces?

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Remind me of islamic cult. The same shit. Incredible

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am ashamed to be Canadian when I see what the NDP is allowing their Vancouver tran to pull. Literally every other women’s shelter lets trans women in, that was the last one and they got defunded by the city

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 49 insightful - 1 fun49 insightful - 0 fun50 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ4sbNVkJnM

Check out this video. It was posted in another tread yesterday. The context is, there was a Womens Library opened up in Canada and TRA decided to invade it and confront the women there. All it took was one scary trans identified male screeching and a group of - whatever the fuck they are - lurking near him menacingly to scare the women into a freeze/fawn response. They tried to negotiate peacefully instead of going "NOPE! GTFO! NOW!" (One girl tried it, screaming from the background while hiding in the shadows, but everyone ignored her.) Had it been a Mens Library filled with men, the men's responses would have been A LOT more aggressive and confrontational. It's partly to do with social conditioning, but also to do with logic and self-preservation. It the Trans identified man loses his shit, he and his minions could seriously physically harm those women (and who knows if they had weapons?) and they had to protect themselves by interacting cautiously and non-confrontationally.

Of course online a trans identified man can't kick your teeth in physically, but I think that social conditioning is still at play. And with Actuallesbians specifically, that sub is already filled with trans identified men, and men roleplaying as women, and insecure women who earn woke-points by simpering at trans people. If you see a post or comment that says "Of course trans people are valid here and girl dick is delicious!" - signed, and actual lesbian woman born with a vagina uwu... There's a good chance it's actually a trans identified male roleplaying as a woman.

If I was a lesbian, like an actual lesbian that 100% likes women only, I would die a little on the inside every time I had to praise girl-dick online. I don't understand how lesbians do it. Like, even me, a bisexual who likes dicks, thinks girl-dick is repulsive. How do "lesbians" manage to find it appealing when I can't??

[–]PassionateIntensity 34 insightful - 3 fun34 insightful - 2 fun35 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

Re: the video.

See if you can find one of the Women's Place UK Meeting they attacked. They looked like a horde of shrieking zombies trying to tear the building apart with their bare hands as they threatened to kill women inside. It was scary. The cops stood watching them and did nothing.

They gassed/smoked bombed another meeting. They got other meetings cancelled by calling in bomb threats and death threats.

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 31 insightful - 2 fun31 insightful - 1 fun32 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It's same old story: males using their physical advantages to try to submit women. The only difference is that today the males are wearing a dress

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 19 insightful - 2 fun19 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Women's Place UK Meeting

This one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngAEZlv9AUM

I feel so bad for English women.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 15 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

This one?

D.A.M.N.

I think my peaking just peaked.

[–]CJLez 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

They gassed/smoked bombed another meeting.

Yup, right by Grenfell as well. And when told by a local resident how hurtful they were being they repeatedly chanted 'we don't care'. That was back when I thought I'd reached peak-peak but I always seem to be able to peak more.

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman🇬🇧🌳🟦 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

right by Grenfell

Damn. You would think that with the charred husk of Grenfell Tower looming in the background people might have some perspective, but clearly not.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 13 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Reminded me my youth, when homophobes beated the sh*t out of me with their legs, and police was just ignoring the fact. it was "fine" just because I am a lesbian.

And now it is literally the same. Men coming and threatening women, and police ignoring, because "transwomen defending their rights against those evil women and lesbians".

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 21 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

No lesbians find that shit appealing.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 5 fun12 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

girl dick is delicious!

🤢

[–]divingrightintowork 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

FOr reference there's a great write up about the video content here - https://www.feministcurrent.com/2017/02/07/vancouver-womens-library-opens-amid-anti-feminist-backlash/

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I also 100% agree with this.

[–]Willpoll 32 insightful - 2 fun32 insightful - 1 fun33 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

Well a big part would be that AGB was never moderated to begin with so people feel safe speaking their minds

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 38 insightful - 2 fun38 insightful - 1 fun39 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Exactly. Most of the actual real lesbians, like myself, were all permanently banned, I cannot comment on anything. So there you can only see the TRAs or lesbians terrified and who don't want to be perceived as TERFs lmao. If actuallesbians had good moderation, none of this had reached this proportions

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 18 insightful - 4 fun18 insightful - 3 fun19 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

If ActualLesbians had good moderation, they would be ended and banned from reddit like TrueLesbians were.

[–]windrunner 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep. I was also banned from there. Now the "lesbians" who aren't actually lesbians there, are just people who believe in a twisted version/meaning of what a lesbian is, which means that lesbians saying they don't like dicks is somehow controversial and transphobic now.

[–]artetolife 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This! Try replicating any of that kind of discussion on any other gay male subreddit and it wouldn't be allowed.

[–]Revision10Just a guy 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've already been banned from them, some by proxy and I wasn't even outspoken yet

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's great, for now. It's like the Wild West. No modded hugbox to shield them from reality. The delusional get laughed in their faces. I get the feeling the sore loser TRAs will eventually pressure Reddit into modding up that sub with their kind.

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

No moderation? That's strange.

[–][deleted] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There's one mod, but the sub's intention is to be mostly self-moderated through upvotes. He does seem to be active in doing his moderator duties but very quietly according to AGB users.

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, then no wonder there is such free speech. How can we compare it to a sub with multiple mods and mostly trans?

[–]Revision10Just a guy 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's moderated, but only for blatantly hateful things.

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Actual lesbian is run by trans, askgaybros isn't.

[–]ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And there's no way for them to take it over like they have every other L, G or B sub, which is why they're bombarding it with "would you fuck a sexy trans man" posts in the hope of getting it taken down. Their raging narcissism can tolerate no opposition.

[–]divingrightintowork 23 insightful - 2 fun23 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I mean fuck, gay men get their spaces, lesbians don't even get that. RIP TrueLesbians

[–]BigMommyMilkersYes, they're real 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Female vs male nature, plus the fact women are persecuted much more harshly for not bowing down to the demands of males

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

gender/queer studies are teaching a young generation of lgb that trans are to protected and any ideas about your own identity as men/women/homosexuals are transphobic. So you have them and libfems fighting the women who are advocating for their own sex.

[–]8bitgay 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

As others said, AGB is a very particular space. Other gay subs might be way better to compare, although I don't think anything is on the level os ActualLesbians.

Frankly though I think the same has been happening for years in gay communities. Maybe in a different pace of what happened with our lesbian. I'm a gay man and I browse gay spaces so I can't compare for sure with lesbian spaces, only with my impressions from hearing from lesbians and checking some of the content they talk about.

There is a lot of gay on gay negativity on gay spaces. I see a lot of memes mocking other gay men and homosexuality as a whole. You can dismiss stuff like memes as being internet only but honestly people replicate their behaviors online in real life too. I honestly believe that this internalized homophobia, this negativity against other gay men in the gay community was essential for the current situation.

Years ago I barely saw anyone saying that gay men should date trans men. But I saw lots of people complaining a lot about the gay community in other ways. Saying that gay men are the most racist, the most sexist, the most hateful against fat people, etc. Even years ago I still saw a lot of people complaining in gay spaces that gay men made everything about themselves, that gay men should give more space to the rest of "queer people".

This way, many gay spaces were already had an atmosphere that made it easy to spread the discourse that gay men should give space to FtM not only in their communities but even in their sexualities. The sense of inferiority made it easy for many gay men to feel like they owed something to these other groups. The negativity made it easy for many gay men to mock and shame other gay men that don't fit the current discourse rather than stand by their brothers.

Also, I might be wrong but I feel that lesbian communities are more neutral towards lesbian women that are more/less feminine. But gay communities often demonize more masculine gay men, and trans men benefit from not fitting this masculine male stereotype.

Some gay communities criticize phallocentrism and size preferences a lot, which obviously also helps this discourse. If you won't date a trans man because of genitals this means you care about penis, and caring about penis is demonized in such communities.

Edit: I wrote this when I was sleepy, and rereading it I realize I left a lot of grammar mistakes, or changed some sentence structures midway. I think it's still understandable though.

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Society has a shitty phallocentric view of sex which also often lead to deaming sex between women, to the point of calling it not real sex. But when it comes to sex involving dicks and no pussy, I fail to understand how a gay man would complain about phallocentrism.

Also, lesbian community can also have a very bad treatment of very femme lesbians, who are often seen as bisexual or curios

[–]Criticallacitirc 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

I think this is a case of actions speak louder than words. I live in San Francisco, the epicenter of all this BS. I see the talk and "demonizing" of being masc4masc. But if you take a step back its not about demonizing being masc. Its femme guys demonizing masc men for not being attracted to them. They want masc men, but masc men aren't allowed like other masc men. You'll hear the chatter of femme4femme, but when do you ever see that in reality?

I'm not masc or femme in terms of personality, but physically I'm a bit waif like/hairless, so I would argue more femme. These are never the type of guys trotted out when we talk about femme in the gay community. Its always some average looking otter in a crop top & with their nails painted. You strip them down naked, they look like "masc" men.

Go to any big gay party or circuit party. Everyone takes their shirts off and looks like masc men.

Look at gay porn. Its almost all either twinks, or Gay 4 pay types. The latter being focused on being masculine. There's no big demand for "femme" porn. Even when I've seen it the "femme" is more of a twink. Never seen an ogre in orange lipstick.

In terms of making space, look at Alok & Jacobia. They squaked about being nonbinary included in gay spaces. We let them in & it wasn't good enough for them. All of their articles complain about not getting laid. They both also if you undress them & take off the makeup look like hairy masc men.

Basically gay men, I think are being accommodating by letting people speak ect.. but they aren't really changing.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I think this is a case of actions speak louder than words. I live in San Francisco, the epicenter of all this BS. I see the talk and "demonizing" of being masc4masc. But if you take a step back its not about demonizing being masc. Its femme guys demonizing masc men for not being attracted to them. They want masc men, but masc men aren't allowed like other masc men. You'll hear the chatter of femme4femme, but when do you ever see that in reality?

This exact same thing also happens in the lesbian community. I'm femme4femme and sometimes we're shamed for it, while butches are allowed to only date femmes if they wish. Femmes are also allowed to only date butches if they wish. We're accused of being "shallow" and of idolizing 'performative femininity', whatever that means. I swear to god I cringe so hard whenever I hear the word 'performative femininity'. 😑 Also, there's this tendency in the lesbian community to shame somehow femininity while masculinity is seen as something to be praised. I do appreciate people breaking gender stereotypes, BUT let's not value one over the other. You're allowed to have your preferences.

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Masculine women is total turn off, not to talk about butches are all about gender role and play dominant part (doesn't work for me, baby, I'm the opposite of submissive). Femininity is beautiful, two women with female style together are fucking hotter than any couples looking like a straight couple. Sorry not sorry lol

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

doesn't work for me, baby, I'm the opposite of submissive

I'm mostly a bottom actually (kind of a switch - 70 bottom/30 top lmao), but only top femmes do turn me on. Top butches don't 🤷 They're really different from each other, despite being both top.

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Yeah, I bet a top butch would be all about some dildo, maybe even pretending to get a blowjob lol And also there is all the fact of being wary of how you treat them or touch them, because their fragile masculinity. Who would want that shit?

[–]strictly 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Yeah, I bet a top butch would be all about some dildo, maybe even pretending to get a blowjob lol And also there is all the fact of being wary of how you treat them or touch them, because their fragile masculinity. Who would want that shit?

I happen to be a stone and technically butch too. If a woman wanted to pretend giving me a blowjob (yikes) I would leave. And I've never suggested using dildos. I'm physically uncomfortable with being toched in certain ways (don't know why) but as I have never desired such touch in the first place I see it as non-issue. In my eyes sex acts should be consensual and I just don't consent to these, I think that is okay. I'm of course open with it to potential partners and if someone isn't into that shit, well good for her, I don't judge. I don't care if someone turned off by butches either, each to their own (I'm personally not that into super femmes who seem too nice and inclusive).

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Yeah, what I was talking there is a link about being masculine and not wanting to be be touched in a certain way. Like yeah I love to be sexually dominant, but I also don't mind to being dominated too and do not have any rules about touched. Because I'm a femme, I don't have to fit some kind of male role.

[–]strictly 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

what I was talking there is a link about being masculine and not wanting to be be touched in a certain way

For me not wanting to be touched that way has nothing to with wanting to live up to some masculine ideal, I just don't desire it. I would be considered butch because I'm unfeminine but me being butch and stone is just a coincidence.

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Everyone has the right to feel as they like and refuse any act they don't want. But it wouldnt work for me.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I mean, there are some really sweet butch women out there, just not my cup of tea personally.

I bet a top butch would be all about some dildo

Yeah, I kind of have to agree with you on this. Top butch women do tend much more often than femmes to want to use the dildo or a strap-on, something I'm REALLY NOT a fan of. It's really weird for me, that idea of sex. With a femme is a totally different the approach, much hotter for me. 😍 (I don't have nothing against people who use dildos or strap on though of course)

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 5 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

I hate fucking dildos. Phallo completely turn me off and are completely shit in getting women off anyway. Best thing about lesbian sex is the lack of it, So the idea of performing a fake sex act (fake cause there is no real person part stimulating the other just plastic, the opposite of real sexual intimacy) with a fake phallo is total turn off. I'm a great top with my own pussy and fingers, which also get a woman off one millions type better than a phallo could ever hope to do ;)

[–]8bitgay 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Its always some average looking otter in a crop top & with their nails painted. You strip them down naked, they look like "masc" men.

Wow, it's amazing to see someone else with a similar experience. I'm kinda like you, in terms of body/face I'm not very masculine. In terms of personality I don't try hard to be masculine but frankly I don't care about the stereotypical interests of the gay community either.

If I go to gay spaces I'll often be the least masculine guy there, phisically. But you have these bearded dudes acting like they're the most feminine men ever just because they say stuff they heard on RuPaul's. It's a way of being "feminine" that allows you to virtue signal in LGBT spaces, while you can also just drop these mannerisms when you need to look masculine.

Frankly I can't even remember seeing a thread complaining about masc 4 masc men that was made by an actually feminine cis man.

[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for sharing your perspective! I am a lesbian and don't know much about gay men's experience of this whole thing, so it's interesting to read.

It sounds like AGB is unusually resistant, from what you are saying; do you know if other gay subs are censoring/banning people who suggest that they don't want to date trans people?

[–]8bitgay 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'd say they're on the middle between AGB and ActualLesbians. In Gaybros for example I noticed that sometimes the mods would delete posts made by FtM that would lead to these conversations (stuff like "would you date FtM?"). One could say this is a more neutral approach: on one side it stops gay men from saying no, but on the other side it protects gay men from being harassed for their answers.

I've seen on the same sub comments on both sides reaching top voted, and comments on both sides being heavily downvoted. It's like the pattern of upvotes/downvotes from the initial hours will be kept during the entire conversation, so it depends on who gets to the post earlier.

From what I've seen from comments that get upvoted/downvoted and deleted, I'd say it's a thin line. Usually mods will allow you to say you aren't interested in FtM when these questions arise (I believe in ActualLesbians this isn't allowed). But you have to be very careful with how you say it or else the comment will be removed.

Many comments dismiss the situation too. Threads with these questions keep appearing, people keep telling others that they should date FtM... But then you also get comments saying stuff like "nobody is telling you to date trans" being heavily upvoted, when a quick look at the rest of the comments will tell otherwise.

[–]ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Many women are raised to be compliant ad agreeable to the point where they aren't even aware there's any other option. You see it constantly on Reddit's JustNo subs, where so many women struggle to not put themselves dead last to the point of crippling their mental health.

[–][deleted] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Gay men are better at dealing with violent threats from other men, and other men (transes of both types, male and female who think they are men) are less likely to want to tangle with people they can’t threaten to rape or murder as easily as women.

[–]a_blue_bird 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

First (as many already wrote): women are more compliant than men in general.
Second: men don't pressure other men to agree with TWAW/TMAM like women pressure other women. I think this is due to men being more disagreeable and handling disagreements with others better than women do.
Third: women care much more about what others think of them, so many feel the need to virtue signal, i.e., show to everyone how progressive and morally superior they are; or to change their opinions to appear progressive.

[–]JulienMayfair 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

One problem is the fact that TRAs have infiltrated feminism itself, and there's no exact equivalent for the social phenomenon of feminism for men, gay or straight.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Female socialization, misogyny, and fear.

[–]CJLez 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Online I think it is safety in numbers - if everyone around you is chanting TWAW you're going to feel less able to speak out. If everyone around you is saying 'well, I wouldn't date a transman' it is easier to admit that you also wouldn't.

In real life it's a matter of physical safety. The (UK) average male height is 5'9" and female is 5'3". Add on the fact that the average man is always going to be stronger than a similarly average woman and that it is illegal for women to carry weapons/mace/pepper spray (the only legal self defence options are rape alarms and squirty dye packs) and one of those people is going to win a physical fight 95% of the time.

[–]snakeswithfur 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Liberal Feminism? My country's lesbian community are vehemently against transwoman. The dating apps disallows any transgenders to message. Our mainstream feminism is radical. Pfft. But it probably has much to do with no one agreeing or openly supporting transgenderism.

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

What countru is that?

[–]snakeswithfur 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

S.Korea

[–]thecandyman 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

AGB only has one mod, who very rarely bans people.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

True Lesbians subreddit was banned for acting like on AskGayBros. And Actual Lesbians is mostly now filled with straight men and "transbians".

[–]Ossidiana 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because lesbians are women. Women just don't have that aggressivity in them. It's biology, the very thing TRAs try to pretend doesn't exist. Why do you think women have been considered second-class citizens for most of human history, and in many countries they still are? It's not just because men are aggressive, it's because women let it happen.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Isn't all lesbian subs who were not compliant were just banned completely? Like /r/TrueLesbians and some other their subs.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've seen this exact same question flipped, lmao

[–]lmaonope333 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

because lesbians fear male violence. we are socialized to give in to men for our physical safety