Gay MenNetflix's Sabrina and homophobia

submitted by 8bitgay from self.LGBDropTheT

You might know about Netflix's reboot of Sabrina, the series about a teenage witch. It's a bit of a guilty pleasure for me (bad plot but nice photography and outfits) and I watched the 3 seasons so far. But over time I started writing down some instances of homophobia I saw on the show. Some of them might seem minor on their own but combined with the rest it paints a view towards gay men that is weirdly and consistently negative.

  • witches punish male bullies by making them kiss each other to use it as blackmail

  • first gay character we meet is the gay uncle of a character is possessed by a demon and killed. On third season we get to see him again, as he was sent to suffer in hell.

  • second gay character we meet is a gay character in the closet portrayed as a bully. A witch uses his sexuality to blackmail him - a second blackmail related to male homosexuality. Unlike other antagonists, he never gets to be portrayed in a positive light, nor gets the chance to accept his sexuality better over time.

  • a major character is the bisexual male cousin of the protagonist. After a while he starts dating a man. But this gay couple (the only one in the series) is shown flirting and having sex with women too. After a while his partner leaves off-screen, and is later revealed to have been tortured and killed. From then on the bisexual character only has sexual interactions with women.

  • the protagonist's second boyfriend is described as bisexual, but he only ever flirts and interacts in a positive way with women. The one time he was shown sexually interacting with men (literal demons, by the way) was as a way of self punishment.

  • there is an all-male club named Dorian Gray, and they put a woman to dance sensually and all the men in the club enjoy it. There are no gay men in the club to show a lack of interest towards the woman, even though the original Dorian Gray novel is known for its homoerotic tones.

  • there is a very heteronormative festivity in which men chase women and have sex. Not a single character is shown to oppose to it or shown to not want to take part of it due to being gay/lesbian.

  • on season 1 there is an androgynous female character. On season 2 it's revealed that the character identifies as trans and chooses to be called Theo. The character demands to be on the male locker room, but after being bullied there Theo chooses to go back to the female locker room. However, in real life gay men who get bullied can't simply switch from male to female spaces for convenience.

  • on season 3 we finally get a gay character that is shown in a positive way. And he instantly falls in love for Theo. At a certain point the gay character assures Theo that he always saw Theo as a man. However, I highly doubt that any gay man would look at Theo and assume that the character is male. Afterwards this gay character is even shown having sex with Theo, with no awkwardness at all.

What do you all think? I might have forgotten some other examples, so please feel free to add. Also feel free to discuss the portrayal of homosexuality in other shows.

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[–]writerlylesbian 42 insightful - 2 fun42 insightful - 1 fun43 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I'd heard about the Theo character, but hadn't heard anyone talk about the rest of it. Sounds like there's a lot of homophobia swirling around.

[–][deleted] 48 insightful - 1 fun48 insightful - 0 fun49 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They should realize that a lot of homosexuals consider it rapey to foist trans characters on to gays as partners, it’s honestly horrible

[–]CJLez 32 insightful - 5 fun32 insightful - 4 fun33 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

It's starting to have real world consequences as well. I saw a gay man on twitter a couple of months back who said that his homophobic mother was trying to set him up with trans men because she saw a bunch of men/trans-men couples on tv and told him he could use them as a stepping stone into turning heterosexual as, nowadays, gay men love vaginas.

[–]Rosefield 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Jesus Christ 😦

[–][deleted] 35 insightful - 2 fun35 insightful - 1 fun36 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

There is a “gay” trans id female on this show that a GAY MAN sleeps with.

Don’t tell the gay guys on LGBdroptheT, they will barf

[–]jiljol 49 insightful - 2 fun49 insightful - 1 fun50 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

This is starting to become a homophobic trope in and of itself. Both Faking It and Shameless had the exact same plotline of a gay man falling in love and having sex with a trans-identified female. In Shameless, the trans female went as far as to verbally harass the guy by calling him a f*ggot in the middle of a gay bar because he wasn't interested in her and SHE was the one who was portrayed in a positive light. Both shows have the gay male characters "overcoming" their "prejudices" (read: being gay) and embracing pussy.

Gay conversion is just so cool, you guys.

[–][deleted] 19 insightful - 3 fun19 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

That’s so gross. Like wtf. Usually it’s lesbians that get straightened

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 24 insightful - 4 fun24 insightful - 3 fun25 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

Seems lesbians are bisexualized in eyes of major public to an enough extent, so they are now going after gay men.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

We sure are. There is always “potential d*ck” in every media portrayal of lesbians. Or an ex. Or a weird circling creep. Or love triangle with a dude

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

And, to double down on the grossness, doesn't it seem like there's also a reluctance to portray actual bi women? (Or men for that matter, but: separate issue.)

As if media very specifically wants to show only SSA women in proximity to dick who, by definition, WOULDN'T be?

Hey, it's two kinds of erasure (lesbian and bi) for the price of one! YIPPEE

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Lesbians and bisexuals are both erased or not named in almost all media with wlw, you’re right. And they also portray us as confused or crazy, or even predatory

[–]tarun 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wasn't it even the same trans actor in both shows?

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And it doesn’t actually work, so it’s a totally inaccurate portrayal.

[–]jiljol 33 insightful - 3 fun33 insightful - 2 fun34 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I knew the show was homophobic, but I didn't know it was this bad. Good thing this trash pile was cancelled.

[–]Criticallacitirc 30 insightful - 6 fun30 insightful - 5 fun31 insightful - 6 fun -  (6 children)

They never tried to make Theo look masculine at all. The last season they were always wearing those tiny earrings that looked super feminine. Robin never came across gay. I just saw it as a straight guy going along with the facade to get laid. Does this look like a gay male couple to anyone ? https://images.app.goo.gl/5pXNUnyGSazTtz2WA

Also its interesting Theos biggest inspiration is his GNC female ancestor Dorothea .

[–][deleted] 21 insightful - 10 fun21 insightful - 9 fun22 insightful - 10 fun -  (0 children)

LOL. NO. This woman is probably the same fujoshi from that gay sex party. Lolol

[–]julesburm1891 22 insightful - 6 fun22 insightful - 5 fun23 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

That’s the straightest thing I ever did see.

[–]fuck_reddit 18 insightful - 5 fun18 insightful - 4 fun19 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

I didn't think it would be that bad...

[–]Veneficca 10 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

The show was so ridiculous when Theo worried about the big trans reveal - like supposedly Robin thought they were a regular guy and would be shocked by reality. Uh, no. Theo looks like a girl with a buzzed head and a flannel shirt.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

After 10 sexual acts - "you know, I want to came out, I am a trans".

Partner - "Oh, so that is why you don't have a penis. Sorry I am transphobe, we can't continue".

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

no no no no no no no no no no -dies in gay-

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 28 insightful - 5 fun28 insightful - 4 fun29 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

I was not able to watch it longer than few episoeds, and seems I made a right choice. Witches are too demonstrative "evil" here, with edginess and acting like douchebags. Unlike older series, where they were just doing their things.

[–]julesburm1891 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Yeah. I stopped watching the show because of stuff like this. It’s kind of sad how the the cast and writers seem to think this is a progressive show.

[–]8bitgay[S] 18 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I guess that broader audiences see that they have some minority characters and for them it means the show is progressive. It's such a weird thing, I feel like a big part of the community is very vigilant about media representation of other groups but when it comes to homosexual men/women there isn't the same care. Somehow many gay men and lesbian women have told themselves that their own group comes last.

Maybe if the show had only one or two of the items on this list it could be just unfortunate isolated cases. But when you have all of this going on it frankly looks like the creative team has some very negative view towards homosexuality and is doing this on purpose.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

they have some minority characters and for them it means the show is progressive

Show "Kick the gay!" in which people are trying to catch and beat a gay man. It has minority characters in it too, so it is as progressive as this one.

[–]LasagnaRossa 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The third season is pretty bad, you did not miss anything.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 23 insightful - 11 fun23 insightful - 10 fun24 insightful - 11 fun -  (2 children)

I stopped watching after season 1. And I only watched the whole thing because I'd already torrented the whole thing and it was sunk-cost fallacy. I already spent the gigabytes downloading, so I might as well finish and hope it gets better. It didn't. I don't remember most of it anymore, thankfully I have a horrible memory for things I don't like, but I do remember feeling like -

1 - Everyone felt like a 'bad guy,' even Sabrina. She was doing malicious things.

2 - It felt like the writers of the show were being smug little edgelords who watched too much The Craft back when they were teens and just wanted the whole show to be DARK & SATANIC & SEX. Like....... One day my dad asked me "What are you watching?" and I was watching Dance Moms, so I explained it to him like "It's a show about this fat lady who yells at little girls, and then they cry, and then their moms all scream at each other, and then everybody cries." And my dad was like "Why do you watch that stuff??" and I just shrugged. But if he asked me "What are you watching?" for Sabrina, I wouldn't even have an answer, and I'd be too embarrassed to even say what I was watching, it was so cringy. And as you can see from Dance Moms, my bar for cringy/embarrassing is already set very low.

[–]rockhard288 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Sabrina is so self-righteous, and she thinks she's above the rules even the universal/natural balance ones. Every time she takes an L, she never learns from it. Makes her character insufferable. Btw keep in mind other characters either show her how to clean up her mess or do it themselves.

[–]PassionateIntensity 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I only ever watched it for Michelle Gomez. 😉

[–]GreykittymommaMagical lady 💜 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, though I enjoyed the show for gothic imagery and the aunts (especially Zelda since she is from LOTR) it is weird with the virgin centric plotlines with everyone else having copious amounts of sex. I want to like some of the themes but it does feel a bit forced and pandering to woke teens. That is most likely the target audience. However, Sabrina is pretty attractive. A very bad version of Hermione lol

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

She really does look like Emma Watson.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 13 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

That sounds really twisted up for me, and reminds older times homophobia.

[–]AndNowTheWeather 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I really enjoyed the show personally but OP is completely right about all of this. I remember being really sad when they killed off the possessed gay man who was possessed simply for being gay and that was that.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I remember watching the original series so much when I was young. It's just a silly but fun show. I guess I'm ok with never checking this one out. I mean, I thought we were past portraying gays and gay interactions in a negative light or as mere punchlines. Funny that a irreverent comedy cartoon like the Simpsons can sometimes do it better.

TV culture continues the trope of "gay" and "lesbian" characters either doing quintessentual straight people things or otherwise never having a good life. Obey the heteronormative ways or suffer.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Was liking old series, there witches were just doing their usual stuff, not being stereotypical mostly and were pretty free-living.

And I tried to watch new series - witches are so stereotypically evil and malicious. Sabrina and other "protagonists" were bullying others, harming them for no reasons at all and in general acting very badly. I dropped series instantly. And now it seems that it wasn't the biggest problem in series...

[–]immersang 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I remember watching the original series so much when I was young. It's just a silly but fun show. I guess I'm ok with never checking this one out.

Same. Reading this thread I guess it's good I stayed away from it (and will keep doing so). It might taint my memories of the original series otherwise.

[–]Huffleterf 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

I think Sabrina had magically made Theo a real boy by the time she has sex in season 3. Sabrina also gave her a magical boost so she’d be able to compete with the boys at basketball. The early episodes are good for seeing how laughable a petite woman playing basketball with a bunch of men is.

The witches on this show struck me as more hedonistic and up for anything and everything than technically gay or bi. This is another way Sabrina is different than them, an outsider, with her ‘purity’.

[–]8bitgay[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah, Sabrina gave Theo a boost for basketball. But they actually discussed in one of the episodes about magically changing Theo's sex. I don't remember the quote exactly now, but Theo said something like "I don't need magic, I already know I'm a man".

[–]ghostraider 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That was the dumbest excuse ever, I find difficult to believe that someone that really thought was in the wrong body and was suffering because of it would say no to a "magical sex change". They wrote it that way into the show because they couldn't admit Theo is a woman, but then they write her character as the stereotype of useless woman.

[–]8bitgay[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It was definitely a poor excuse. But if Theo accepted the magical sex change this would mean that Robin only felt attracted to Theo after Theo magically became a cis man... And obviously this isn't the message they tried to send. They had to send the message that a cis gay man would be fine with dating a FtM.

It is interesting though that they didn't show a similar care in the many negative portrayals of gay/bi men.

[–]IAmSatanVery... very... very gay. 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Wow. Yeah, sex doesn't exist, haven't you heard... -.-

We're all attracted to gender. I personally love lampshadegender. I'm lampshadesexual. Doesn't matter what you look like and stuff, as long as call yourself lampshadegender!!!

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 10 insightful - 6 fun10 insightful - 5 fun11 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

I like collecting dolls and coins. I am dollgender and coinsexual.

[–]IAmSatanVery... very... very gay. 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

omg u have liek a label, who neds personlaity. Ur valid UwU

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for validation. As every good non-binarist, after someone validated me, I need to go and jerk off on myself and my greatness.

[–]IAmSatanVery... very... very gay. 4 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

omg i hav kink 2 liek 24 kinks

jurk of fur mi tu

[–]Canardyyy 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I stopped watching the show cause I lost interest. But I never paid much attention to the little details since for me it never really pertained to what the show was supposed to be all about.

[–]11_11 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am a lurker and this post got me interested. I'm a hermetic, the concepts that they mix within the show are a mockery of the hermetic principles. All I will say, if you know little about the gnostic or hermetic you will know why the whole show felt off.