all 55 comments

[–]indeepshadowsBi woman 38 insightful - 2 fun38 insightful - 1 fun39 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

The Human Rights Campaign chose to comment on this as follows: "The brutal attack on a same-sex couple for refusing to kiss in front of a group of men is a direct result of latent and widespread misogyny and homophobia. This epidemic of hate violence against LGBTQ people and trans women worldwide must end now."

To say I'm angry doesn't even begin to cover it.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 31 insightful - 3 fun31 insightful - 2 fun32 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

But "transwomen" already included in LGBTQ, no? And transmen not specified as well. TW always need more attention and centring on them.

And here we have lesbian women, not trans, not queer.

[–]fuck_reddit 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

It's the Reading attack + Stonewall all over again (except this event happened before the Reading incident). They can't let it be known that LGB couples are being attacked in more violent and horrible ways than those poor transwomen that are apparently being killed at a rate of 2:1.

[–]Ambisextrous 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

It’s crazy. Even if the statistics about trans women in the US are the most vulnerable group to violence. (Highly doubtful) There is not one possible way you could manipulate statistics to support this idea in the U.K., Trans people are very rarely victims of violent crime, LGB are far more likely to be attacked, in particular gay men.

[–]fuck_reddit 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'm not familiar with the UK statistics but I know in the US there are less than 10 trans murders a year (and the majority are related to drug trafficking, so not really "killed for being trans"). There's also only one or two instances of the "trans" panic legal defense in US legal history. When the murder rates are compared, the trans murder rate is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

By official statistics there only around 3500 transgenders (both transmen+transwomen) were killed in last 15 years in the whole world. UK, Canada and USA by estimation have around 2 million transgenders (including ones who are not doing HRT or surgery). This means that death ratio for transgenders is the lowest out of all groups and all demographics. Futhermore, most transgender deaths are from prostitution or drugs, and majority killed transgenders are asian or black.

However, there nothing strange in such statistics, because majority of neo-transgenders are white middle or high middle class men with stable income and good life situation or young girls.

[–]fuck_reddit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ok, so for some solid numbers, I did some (kinda mediocre digging), and found an article on Forbes saying there were 30 transgender murders in the US in 2019 and 1 in the UK (assuming one in Canada as well for ease). That's ~32, using your 2,000,000 estimate for the same countries, that's a per 100,000 death rate of ~1.6. Looking at Wikipedia's international death rate stats, that's a death rate equivalent to Belgium (and almost exactly equal to Tajikistan, although idk if I believe their official stats), higher than the UK by .4 per 100,000, and lower than the US and Canada numbers. So there's not clear evidence that trans people are dying more than any other group. Edit: also the Forbes article said there were 331 murders of trans people in 2019 and 130 of them were in Brazil

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Brazil seems to be rich on transgenders nowadays, even first "woman" in many competitive internet games were transgenders from Brazil. And high death rate assumes it is similar to Thailand, where transgenders are just for sex works, plus overall death rate there is big. I will need to check this later.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The capital T is not enough. Will never be enough. TRAs must have even MORE visibility. Even though the victims in the story are not even Trans people.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

They need to change LGBTQ+ to TTTTQ+.

[–]windrunner 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm getting fucking annoyed at this point. Like why do they have to be made the center of everything????

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 22 insightful - 3 fun22 insightful - 2 fun23 insightful - 3 fun -  (43 children)

Although Melania wrote “COMO HOMOSEXUALES” (translated literally by the media), and in follow up interviews Chris says she’s “queer”—a slur historically used to condemn homosexuality, later reclaimed by homosexuals, and in recent years appropriated to mean absolutely anyone—as of June 24th, Chris clarified that she’s bisexual (not homosexual), in an Op-ed.

It's amazing, isn't it? How it no longer feels cute to call yourself by a slur word after someone beats the fucking shit out of you for being same-sex attracted?

(It's horrible what happened to these women and I don't mean to take away from that, but I just liked that this journalist didn't mollycoddle the "queer" shit out of sympathy.)

I really wonder, I've heard so many nightmare stories coming from England regarding how the police (don't) deal with rape. Will these boys even be caught? And if they are caught, will they even be punished?

[–]writerlylesbian 20 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 2 fun -  (15 children)

Police in England have massive funding issues. In many areas, they will not investigate crimes like burglaries, car theft, physical assault etc. But they will always find the time to pursue people for 'hate crimes' on twitter, of course (which means making a comment not in line with trans orthodoxy).

I think initially police dismissed this case, but then had to pay attention to it once it blew up into a huge deal in the media. Who knows if that led to arrest, charges etc. in the long term. Also, after it became a big media deal, one half of this couple wrote some dreadful media piece where she spent the whole time hand-ringing over being too 'privileged' because she was white. After experiencing a homophobic attack. God, it was such a wasted opportunity. Like, she could have spent the article drawing attention to all the difficulties and dangers LGB people still face, and say that disproportionately those issues will also be experienced by those who are less well off/ethnic minorities, and tell people what they could do to help (charity donations or whatever). Instead she just talked about how she was a bad person because she was a white woman who experienced a hate crime and eventually got people to give a shit.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 20 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Why should that woman feel bad about being white? Regardless of her skin colour, she and her partner were still attacked by those little shits. No amount of “white privilege” cancels out the fact that these two women were attacked and robbed for being homosexual and for refusing to entertain those twats.

Intersectionality is destroying our community, and it is making it harder for lesbian, gay and bisexual people who have been attacked or discriminated against because of their orientation to seek support.

And another thing. No offence to British people, but your police force is a joke. The saying about all of the cops in heaven being British has not aged well at all.

[–]writerlylesbian 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Agreed on the British police. Though I am only half British, and only lived over there for a few years as an adult to see what it was like.

Also agreed on intersectionality being toxic. It's atrocious for a victim to apologise for having too much privilege because she's not an even WORSE victim who is also poor/Black/trans or whatever.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The Garda Síochána are not much better let's be honest. They all sing from a similar ultra left hymn-book.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You are sadly right. And the worst part is, it’s not just the Gardaí. The judges, the media and the politicians also don’t care about stopping actual crime.

In Ireland and in the U.K., most of the upper management in police stations were never on-the-beat police officers to begin with. A lot of them got those positions with nothing but a useless college degree like gender studies. Only people who used to be cops and who were good at their jobs should get promoted to management. And the police should be allowed to carry weapons so they can go after dangerous criminals.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Stopping actual crime is hard though..............Fighting mean words online not so much. It is easy meat.

The judicery is a joke.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The judiciary is a joke

I’m not sure if the penal system of countries like the U.K., Ireland and America are incompetent or outright malicious. But I’m leaning towards them being malicious.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" - You seem to have invoked something akin to Hanlon's razor.

I am not sure which of the two is more a truth tbqh. I feel like I would prefer to side with incompetence. We might just have a chance then. We can do something with incompetence. Malice however is a lot more frightening. Hard to oust competent nasty cunts.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A malicious government can still be restrained by a well-informed population who continuously ring up their elected representatives. A politician is less likely to do a terrible thing if he or she knows he or she will lose his or her seat in the next election for this.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Thanks. I am cringing so hard right now. I was thinking about Googling whatever she wrote that was mentioned in the article, but after seeing this, I'd much rather forget about the whole thing.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Police requested from Twitter data about Posie Parker and came to her home for "being transphobic". For this they can find money and manpower. But for actual crimes - can't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E8o_4IVk8A

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

[–]fijupanda[S] 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

headdesk

yeah, she could have used her "privilege" then. oh well...

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I couldn't explain my anger and confusion earlier but it finally clicked in my head now why I'm so fucking annoyed by this. How did our society gaslight this woman so hard that she's sitting here talking about her "white privilege" when these children who attacked her have LITERAL (like, literally literal) male privilege of being able to physically overpower and beat her and her partner? They have actual tangible privilege given to them by the sheer chance of being born with dicks and testosterone they can beat women up for the crime of not performing porn for them IRL on a bus. And she's talking about "white privilege"??? Being white didn't protect her from this situation! Being males of any race living in England protected these potential rapists from even really being properly punished. This isn't some kind of intangible fantasy privilege, this is one of the very real benefits of being born and getting to go through life in a strong healthy male body.

[–]writerlylesbian 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's incredibly frustrating and sad. Male privilege is always the one privilege no one is allowed to talk about.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Excellent analysis. I hate that the concept of privilege has been so bastardized out of control and is now merely a tool of manipulation used to beat someone down with when you don’t have a good counter-argument.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 19 insightful - 3 fun19 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

At least they used word "lesbian" in title, and not like in that article posted here yesterday, where word lesbian was used exactly zero times about lesbians, and always was "queer" or "woman loving woman".

to call yourself by a slur word after someone beats the fucking shit out of you for being same-sex attracted

My lesbian friend after similar treatment tried to blend as "boy" for many years (was cutting hair short, wearing boy cloths, referring to herself as "he"). That was around 15 years ago. I bet if there was this trans hysteria, she may even try to transition. I am sure I could talk her out, but still.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 18 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

I'm worried that in the next 5 years, they're going to find a way to make the word 'lesbian' offensive, so no one is allowed to use it anymore. They're already trying it with 'homosexual.'

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is almost like that right now, because in most articles it is "queer woman" now instead of "lesbian", like it is swear word or something.

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 5 fun13 insightful - 4 fun14 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

Us old school transvestites are no longer allowed to use that word supposedly either as GLAAD deemed it offensive as well.

Well guess what cupcake, you not get to tell this homosexual transvestite what words they can and cannot use to define themselves.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 8 insightful - 6 fun8 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

Transgender rights over everyone elses.

Tim Curry is now outlawed then, for his transvestite role.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

The day they cancel Tim Curry for Frankenfurter is the day I finally go loco down in a shopping mall.

[–]ekitten 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They're already eroding away the meaning of 'lesbian', like they have with 'woman' and are doing with 'female', because they insist that males can be lesbians :/

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Even if it isn't offensive, the meaning is getting changed. I swear a bisexual idiot said that she could call herself a lesbian cause Sappho had an husband lol. I think homosexual is the better word.

[–]CJLez 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Three boys were charged and sentenced last December - the 17 year old was given a four month youth referral order (basically you go to training that tells you not to do it again and if you keep out of trouble you're fine), the 16 year old got an eight month youth referral order and a £120 fine and I couldn't find what the 15 year old was given but it was likely a similar sentence, esspecially as he was youngest.

So, not really punished.

Edit: though I'm not sure what I'd actually want a punishment to be.

[–]artetolife 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

The trouble with custodial sentencing is it's quite glamorous to a wannabe gangster teenager. Everyone I've met that's been to a YOI was proud of it.

[–]CJLez 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah, I've been thinking more about it and this was probably the best of a bad bunch of options. At the time it happened most of the public were sympathetic to the women but there was still a fair few "if they hadn't been openly together this wouldn't have happened, they were leading them on by being affectionate" type comments. If you start locking up 15 year olds there would probably have been a lot more backlash against the women.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

if they hadn't been openly together

Victim blaming all over again. "Why are you being homosexual? So it is your own fault!"

[–]artetolife 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I saw that too. Every time there's a homophobic attack in the news people jump to insinuations that they must have provoked it somehow, or faked it, because they want to believe that homophobia is over and LGB people should just shut up about it. That and they blame islam/immigration, even though I don't think the perp's race or religion was ever confirmed, because if homophobia does still happen, it couldn't be one of our people and therefore our problem.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

That’s why I support flogging as an option for criminals. Yes it’s cruel, but it makes them never want to reoffend again.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I am not so sure. I grew up in a time when school caning was done regularly and my father would also spank and hit.

All I learnt from it was now in adult life I have a fetish for it.

Thanks corporal punishment at young ages!!!

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I’m against corporal punishment in school and at home, but I support using it on criminals like they do in Singapore. Teachers should not be allowed to smack a student under any circumstances. Not sure about banning parents from smacking their kids, but it should be discouraged if there are alternative ways of disciplining them, which there usually are.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I am with you I think on the criminal side of things. Public humiliation is a powerful tool. TBH I think personally if I had to choose between a fixed period of incarceration vs physical punishment and a side order of public humiliation I would choose incarceration. At least in a prison you are all equally embarrassed. I mean it's not like in prison anyone 'got away with it'.

But in prison your loss of pride is kind of kept away from everyone else.

Bring back the village pillory! We still have one in our village. Obviously it is more a tourist attraction but with a lick of Cuprinol I reckon I could get that bad boy whipped up and into shape tout suite.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Adding to the loss of pride, the sheer physical pain can leave the convict asking himself, "was it worth it." In Singapore, they have a very low crime rate. Now, there's a lot about Singapore that I don't like, especially with how they treat homosexuality as a bad thing, but their approach to actual crime such as murder, theft, vandalism, rape, human trafficking and arson is spot on. If they would decriminalise homosexuality, remove restrictions in the military, cut down on the censorship and legalise gay marriage or civil partnerships within the next 10 years, that would be great.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for letting me know. I'm glad they were caught but................ sheesh. Hopefully they actually learn something and don't do it again... I guess....

[–]SailorMoon2020 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Europe in general is very different when it comes to rape. For the most part(mostly western Europe, Eastern is a bit more brutal), the rapist will simply be ordered to pay a fine to the victim and if a minor, the victim and family. It would be easier and probably more satisfying for the victim to get her/his own justice. If caught, they'll probably get one to five years in jail, if that, or simply probation.

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Fine for rape in Europe? Where? Not in Italy I mean, yeah, USA is far more rigid, but rape has still jail time, even if far less comparing to USA.

[–]SailorMoon2020 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Fair enough. I was looking at countries like the U.K, Sweden, Denmark...

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Fine for rape in Sweden and in Uk? Fucking bs. Rape gets jail everywhere

[–]SailorMoon2020 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

No, it doesn't...it really doesn't. But pop off.

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Surely it does in place like Uk and Sweden. You american got strange idea about Europe

[–]SailorMoon2020 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I like how you think I was born and raised in America. I have dual. But if you wanted to know where I was from, you probably would have asked instead of assumed.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 20 insightful - 3 fun20 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

It is not violence unless they were misgendered. /s

(and I am not mocking girls, as my close lesbian friend lived through similar and not once)