LGB ErasureJust Say No to Umbrella-Terming ("LGBTQ+" and "Queer")

submitted by KCStuffedAnimal from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–]KCStuffedAnimal[S] 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

The more you stretch that acronym, the less real community it represents. I'm aware of deep divisions between Lesbian and Gay male activists that go back as far as the heyday of the Mattachine Society. Bisexual folk have always complained about the disrespect they get from Gay people (and the tension goes both ways, although that's seldom talked about); and we know only too well about the uproar radical transgender activism has caused.

If we're to be referred to by an acronym, or an umbrella term if you will, then we should all have a significant characteristic in common. Shared same-sex orientation makes sense of "LGB"; but when you add the "T", that's where the problems start. There's not enough commonality. LGB folk have fought against the idea that we're disordered, while most Transfolk embrace it. That "trapped in the wrong body" mindset hasn't been part of Gay activism for many years, and we certainly don't want to reclaim it. At least, I don't!

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

Originally T was added for transsexual homosexuals. And LGBT was still ONLY about sexuality. Now T was hijacked by "transgenders" who are not even transsexuals with "born in wrong body" but some people called "transgenders" (previously transgender and transsexual were synonims, as gender was equal to sex, but not anymore) with "I feel like other sex" or "being other sex is my kink", and QIAANB+ part added was not about sexuality either. Almost everything that is after LGB nowaydas is about either sexual kinks or "how you feel yourself" or "what stereotype you will like to follow", not about sexuality at all. Plus if LGB is mostly about acceptance and "we are normal, just like everyone else, let us live. Being homosexual is same as being with brown or white hair, nothing special", the TQ+ is about "we are different, we need more rights than other people, make sure to remember that we are different and use special pronounses, change the world". And in general TQ+ has a lot more in common with movements like Feminism or Men Rights Activism.

And this is main issue with TQ+ under umbrella term - they want absolutely different things than we (LGB) are, they have absolutely different problems than we have, and even whole core reason of those problems is different. If Lesbians, Gays and Bisexuals have something in common - romantic and/or sexual attraction to same sex people, if all LGB people have same reason for being oppressed and it is shown in same way to all of them, then TQ+ have nothing in common both with LGB part and even within themselves.

[–]Ko-hi 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (17 children)

That first A still about sexuality! Asexuality is what rounds out the spectrum of sexualities, same/opposite/both/neither.

[–]KCStuffedAnimal[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (16 children)

"Asexual" is similar to the label "queer" in that an exact definition is impossible to arrive at. If I want to get thoroughly confused, all I have to do is try and sort out all the contradictory claims made about asexuality! Because it's so nebulous, I can't accept asexual persons as part of that spectrum you refer to. Nor do I believe they suffer oppression that's comparable to what Lesbians, Gay men and Bisexual folk suffer. But as I said before, there's no reason for you to worry because the LGBTQ+ leadership believes differently. You're definitely part of the Incredibly Expanding Acronym. What more do you want?

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (5 children)

Asexuality is pretty easy to define. It is just not wanting any sexual contacts or relationships, for the whole life or temporary.

However, I am not sure if it is something separated or alternative to sexuality or orientations. I am living alone and not really having any sexual feelings to anyone for around 6-7 years now (I still have romantic feelings and flirting around, thought), so I am asexual, however, at same time I am lesbian, because I love and want only other women, both romantically and sexually, it is just period in my life now that I want to be alone. So asexuality is just one different beast. It is like you can be both tall and have brown hair - just not related things.

[–]KCStuffedAnimal[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Asexual and Lesbian at the same time? That's one of the contradictions I was talking about. Is that supposed to be two sexual orientations paired up in one person? Shut the front door!

Without going into much detail, I could describe myself as asexual the way you describe it. But the point is: Whatever else we may be, we're Gay people! That's what qualifies us for inclusion in LesBiGay liberation movements. Asexual liberation? Don't understand it, can't relate to it, and won't pretend otherwise. All I know is that pretending asexuality is directly comparable to homosexuality in terms of persecution is dishonest. Not that I'm accusing you or anyone else here of doing that.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Didn't I just said that asexuality is not sexual orientation? And it is not gender either. It is tied with sexuality, but that is it. Asexuality is mostly pressured in a way that people may think asexual person is LGB or pressure to get married, etc. So problems are different to sexual orientation problems. And unlike sexual orientation, it can change, appear or dissapear, or last whole life (as I was sexually active until 6-7 years ago, until I decided I want to be alone for some time, and that time not ended yet).

At least by the old description/meaning of the therm, maybe TQ+ created new meaning to it, I don't know. But even if we think of asexuality of sexual orientation that is "inherent sexual and romantic attraction to no one" - homophobic countries still will not hate you for being alone. Only problems can be in countries like China, where having kids and being married is required, but that is same pressure as on everyone, not specifically asexuals.

[–]KCStuffedAnimal[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That isn't exactly what you said, but I appreciate your clarification. I think we agree that people aren't an oppressed class due to their asexuality.

[–]Ko-hi 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Asexuality is lack of attraction, not "not wanting sexual contact". The second is generally a side-effect as sex would feel as palatable to us as the thought of having sex with a man to a lesbian.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Well, I had no attraction to anyone as well, even romantic one, for those years, until recently. Same was when I was married on a man.

[–]Ko-hi 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Asexuality is easy to define and conceptualise, it's what a lesbian feels towards a man. No sexual attraction. It's a sexuality. But there are many who think it's about whether or not you want sexual contact, that is what muddles it.

You could say we're extremely low attraction bisexuals, since we feel equal attraction to both genders, if you prefer that.

[–]KCStuffedAnimal[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Men turning Lesbians into asexual women? Asexuality, a subcategory of bisexuality? You remind me of an amateur comedian, grabbing desperately for punchlines before he crashes and burns! Tell me another one; maybe next time I'll laugh!

No doubt it's best to let Lesbians and Bisexual persons speak for themselves; methinks there are a few who disagree with you. Maybe even more than a few. At best, your claims are wishful thinking and at worst, they're an attempt at gaslighting!

That annoying habit of trying to blur sexual orientation definitions is one reason why folks are starting to turn away from "queer" activists and activism. Re-defining someone else's identity to suit your own socio-political agenda, that's just plain rude. I could easily use rougher language, but let's keep things family-friendly.

[–]Ko-hi 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Oh my god are you being intentionally obtuse. You're twisting my words into something I never said.

Asexual = equal attraction to both genders, namely zero. It's a separate sexuality but it's most similar to bisexuality, due to the equal attraction aspect. 0=0. I am 30, I literally thought I was bisexual all my life until a year ago.

A lesbian feels 0 attraction towards a man. I used this comparison to point out what it feels like, to contrast that other person who said it's about not wanting sex. I did not say men make lesbians asexual WTF

[–]KCStuffedAnimal[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Why should I twist your words when you do such a great job twisting them yourself? You don't need my help. If twisted analyses bother you so much, then stop drawing parallels with people whose life experiences you don't understand! But do they really bother you? I doubt it. The so-called "LGBTQ+ community" that you claim membership in encourages blurring identity distinctions and creating false equivalence. That's one reason why "G" is the only letter I identify with!

[–]Ko-hi 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Considering I identified as bi for longer than some members of the community have been alive and dated/had sex with both genders, sure kiddo, I don't understand their life experience at all and there's no point in drawing any parallels out of experience. Keep being that abrasive and you'll alienate everyone sympathetic to the LGB without other letters cause.

[–]KCStuffedAnimal[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So you're not Bisexual but you identified as Bi for awhile and that qualifies you to speak for them? You keep coming with the jokes, but I'm still not laughing! It isn't funny to witness someone so intent on self-delusion, twisting and turning every which way in order to be part of something while simultaneously trying to set himself apart from it. It looks like someone is going to hurt himself sooner or later.

If pointing out absurdities makes me abrasive, I'm OK with that. Just think of me as your handy kitchen Brillo pad! I scrub away the gunk so that what's underneath can be seen clearly. The question is, do you have the will to see clearly? If you don't, we're just going around in circles and wasting each other's time.

[–]indeepshadowsBi woman 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

You're on TRA levels of willfully misunderstanding your opponent. Congrats.

[–]KCStuffedAnimal[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You're the one who doesn't understand. I have no opponents here. We're just talking and disagreeing. At ease, soldier, go back to your barracks.