Anti-woke leftist looking for a place with less brain-rot.

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[–]avena_sativa_3 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

left/right paradigm is antiquated.

[–]malthuswaswrong 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Security/Liberty is the relevant dichotomy today. I wonder if it's really been that way all along.

[–][deleted]  (10 children)

[deleted]

    [–]72ndGender 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

    What's ironic, is I see this exactly the opposite way. I see the left as wanting unlimited power in the hands of the few (politicians, bankers, corporate rulers) while the right wants individual rights, along the lines of libertarian ideals. The left keeps demanding the population be forced into ways of life and to accept ever shrinking constitutional rights, while the right pushes back against this. First, second, fourteenth amendments especially. A little fifth amendment thrown in there. Fourth amendment is both sides though.

    [–][deleted]  (7 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]bobbobbybob 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Ah, the 'never tried real socialism' argument.

      All left-wing ideologies require governments to heavily intervene in normal human interactions. This naturally and inevitably result in power concentration with the few.

      Animal Farm being a classic analysis.

      [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      the culture war is the way they use to try to co-opt leftist stuff, isn't it.

      [–]72ndGender 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      You make a fair point. And it's also worth bringing up that modern political groups have strayed very far from their roots in the last 20 years. Just look at the difference between a liberal in 2000 and a "liberal" in 2020.

      [–]wecandobetter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      You are employing the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy of argument. Left and right are not static terms. They simply designate different polarizations of politics in various countries. For the purpose of discussing the US, conservatives vs anti-conservatives is the most accurate, as 'conservative' captures both the politics and the culture of the mainstream right - it seeks to preserve a status quo with an emphasis on traditional anglosaxon culture, religion, and individualism with minimal taxation and government services. What exactly the 'left' is in the US now I'm not sure even the 'left' knows entirely.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]wecandobetter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

        You fans of socialism always move the goalposts when it's not going well. If that ain't a no true scotsman, I don't know what it.

        [–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        In 1973, all six major US class segments were centrist. Over the next 35 years, five of the segments moved slightly to the right, but "Intellectual Upper Class" moved far out to the left.

        https://www.aei.org/publication/the-white-house-and-the-pauline-kael-syndrome/

        [–]jet199 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        I always go back to the original meaning.

        The right support government by an elite and the left want government by the people.

        Even though this makes the right seem bad you actually need a mixture of both for society to work.

        Most people would want their local mayor elected by popular vote but wouldn't want their heart surgeon chosen that way.

        There are many ways to achieve either type of government so their are many branches to each wing. So old school liberals and communists can disagree about most things but still both be on the left because what they disagree about is how to get government by the people not the actual goal. Liberals who secretly just want to be part of a powerful elite themselves are not left wing, just liars.