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[–]GConly 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

did people actually... do this?? this is a bit disturbing.

Did it with quite a few mammal species including primates. Started in 1953.

And brain differences can also be due to non-genetic factors and epigenetic factors and all that. "man" and "woman" are not static things

Well, you can see the brain of male and female fetuses are different upon autopsy from preterm stillbirths. That paper was quite a grim read.

You can also find that puberty levels big hormones make alterations to the brain. Which debunked the old Swaab paper that started this wrong brain sex area BS back in 94. Long story but will explain if asked.

How do you think this interaction could work better?

They've really got to drop the 'all differences are all socialisation /no brain sex' stuff. It makes me cringe every time I see it.

I know why they stick to it. If it's socialised into them you can fix it, if it's innate you give them an excuse to shrug their shoulders and claim it's natural and therefore okay/forgivable. There's also the issue that accepting innate differences exist means people accepting unequal representation in positions of power is inevitable.

From my POV, you have to know what actually causes a problem before you have a hope of fixing it, or at least coming up with effective coping strategies.

The data coming out lately is showing straight TIMs have normally masculinised brains. And that's the ones who had a childhood GD diagnosis. It's also showing sexual arousal when cross dressing is definitely an issue with a lot if them.

Personally I think we need to focus on a workable strategy based on what the public believe after being fed TRA bullshit for years.

From a lot of arguing with the average Jane libfem, they believe that all TIMs have gender dysphoria as kids, they are mostly gay, and they have wrong sex brains. They also believe most have had SRS, are in hormones, and have female violent and sex offending behaviour. They think TIMs are dying by the thousands from hate crimes, and gd kids are committing suicide all over if they aren't instantly transitioned.

They also believe all kids turning up with GD are permanently trans, don't know about the high desistance rates, and genuinely think puberty blockers are safe with no long term negative effects.

I think strategically we need to stick to presenting people with the facts in a consistent non hostile manner, carefully documenting how the TRAs are actively lying or being disingenuous.

A bit off-topic, but what does the latest research say about homosexuality/sexuality?

Varies. With females it seems to be down to getting excess testosterone. For example,, my female family members have a condition that means we produce excess t, a lot of the girls are gay or bi.

In men, they seem to be getting normal male T levels, but epigenetic changes that lower the response to it in the brain are the issue. They also seem to have an overall lower response to t because the average gay man has subtle differences to his face, and they average out at a cm or two shorter.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing this, it's all pretty interesting.

I think strategically we need to stick to presenting people with the facts in a consistent non hostile manner, carefully documenting how the TRAs are actively lying or being disingenuous.

This seems pretty doable. And it will probably help.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Saved. BTW, if you don't already have something like this, use a reference database such as Zotero. It makes it much easier to manage research, bibliography and dump those references into a text box. If you just didn't have the time here, that's fine, too. Your post was already long and informative enough, I was just wondering if you were in a similar place as I was and grew tired of pulling up the same studies over and over again. They also have a browser extension, called Zotero Connector or something similar, through which you can automatically create bibliographical references from a web page, a Wikipedia article, a Google Scholar reference, an arxiv page, a researchgate page, etc. I have come to love it and I have every study at my fingertips I could ever wish for when arguing now. It also was a huge help with my dissertation.

[–]GConly 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

was and grew tired of pulling up the same studies over and over again.

Even more tired of being able to recall reading something and not being able to track the source down later. I have so many bookmarks on my laptop I can't find stuff on there either.

I'll have a look at Zotero, thanks for the heads up.