The shills and bots are winning.

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[–]cm18 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Really need trusted link and comment sharing where you match links and comments to known human counterparts.

[–]LarrySwinger2 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

It's a scary thought. Does the immediate link clicking reveal them to be bots, though? It could be that the shills have scripts in place that do automated posting, while it's still primarily a human that makes the comments. It could be that they use software that simply clicks links for analytical purposes.

To what degree do you guys think this is going on here? Are some of the shills, such as Chipit, actually bots? I'm looking at his comments a little bit. He resorts to personal attacks, and refrains from refuting anything. His comments are very similar to each other, especially the personal attacks he makes. And when he gets called out for anything, he never defends himself properly. His commenting really is of a level that AIs must be capable of.

Comments are more telling than posts, but we can infer things from posts as well. Chipit is guilty of voatification, posting headlines that this site's userbase would welcome, but it's always the most polarizing stuff, and he makes it more polarizing on top of that through deceptive titles. Here's a recent example. Unto itself, the title seems to follow his trend of first giving the actual title of an article he's linking to, and then giving a short summary. When you click it, you discover that it's just a short entertainment video that invites you to laugh at a protester, instead of having actual content. The title isn't an appropriate description at all. So where does it come from? It turns out to be assembled from the video title, the first line of its description, and a random comment to the video, all concatenated. Who comes up with that idea? It really is bot-like behavior.

I've posted another example 5 months ago here.

It's starting to make sense to me. Why would adversaries pay people to comment on sites like these full time when they can just pay devs once to write and train AIs to do then do it for free?

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Great insights!!! Saved!

I also think Chipit may have a human driving him at times, though perhaps that's just occasional better A.I. too.

Ping /u/Tom_Bombadil

[–]LarrySwinger2 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I agree. There are times when you'll want to give him the benefit of the doubt. But when I analyze his post history at a random moment, he seems like a bot, and that's telling.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

You blew my mind this morning. It makes many of our semi-nonsensical "conversations" make more sense.

I wonder if they know that because they are semi-nonsensical they piss people off more? Is there a threshold where people just check out and don't bother with them? Is there a fine line where you can string people along for a while yet also piss them off? Makes me wonder.

[–]Jesus 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Chipit never debates me, like ever.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Me either really. Sure he's replied a few times to my attacks, but never in a way that made sense. And he trolls on occasion.

I'm now convinced he's a tribalist shill bot, unable to debate. I'm actually very embarrassed I didn't see what Larry pointed out before this. But to give myself some credit, I don't give a shit about Chipit and don't spend much time thinking about him. I already wrote him off long ago and simply consider him only a danger to simpler minds and occasional visitors on SaidIt.

Chipit is like annoying poison ivy in our woods.

[–]Node[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

One of the theories on what's happening there is bots doing the grunt work, with teams of humans backing them up. Similar to robo calls, where the human only steps in once a live one is on the hook.

Are some of the shills, such as Chipit, actually bots?

How can he have time to spend all day everyday posting links on saidit? The human/bot hybrid theory makes a lot of sense, both to explain what's happening, and from an efficiency and effectiveness perspective.

[–]LarrySwinger2 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I just assumed they were minimum wage workers.

[–]Node[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I realized while looking at your 5 month old link I haven't seen /u/Tom_Bombadil[ lately. It's been about 2 weeks, but hopefully he's just on vacation or something. Come back, Tom!

Your theory could be valid. I don't know much about the internet propaganda industry. Used to have a call center in SF back in the old days. We paid the workers a minimum wage, with some compensation for each successful sale. It was a pretty marginal lot though.

We made 50 bucks per sale, with a 30%+ success rate from the lists we were getting. I'm not immediately seeing a source of profit from paying people to back up comment bots on the internet (reddit, faceberg, etc) unless it's more about political propaganda. Paying someone to post on saidit would seem to be particularly unprofitable.

[–]LarrySwinger2 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

To clarify: my previous assumption was that users like Dipshit are minimum wage workers, and it's now dawning on me that they're more likely to be mostly bots, with perhaps a human co-piloting now and then.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I was thinking that myself. I had assumed /u/Tom_Bombadil was still standoffish at me for the drama I caused exposing M7. Tom was thinking that I was could be a long-con disruption agent of some kind. Anything's possible I suppose. Perhaps M7 is a limited hangout, a LEO who's got a few dozen truth-seekers addict-trapped in his forum that he's determined not to improve. Anything's possible. Too much effort for so little payoff doesn't make sense in either scenario. It'd be cheaper and easier to hire a hitman to take out the leaders and non-anons like me.

It could also be that Tom is gardening more or something in the good weather. Maybe he's doing better with his resources than I am.

would seem to be particularly unprofitable.

Destroying the economy would seem to be particularly unprofitable. Yet they're doing it on purpose.

We all do better when we all do better. But the ruling class never wants that. They want it all to themselves. So, we all do worse when we all do worse - except for them. They print money and bail themselves and their friends out.

It's going to get worse too.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

How can he have time to spend all day everyday posting links on saidit?

LOL. This applies to some of us humans too. (And subhuman shills like socks also.)

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free for UBI.”

[–]Node[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Well, I can't because I've diversified onto so many other sites. I would be making tens of thousands daily if I were still in my long gone consulting business. But it's all just killing time now.

Socks could actually be one of those bot/human partnerships. There's definitely a human there some of the time, but other times it's exactly like it's a bot posting.

[–]Node[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

/u/fschmidt

You may have an interest in this kind of thing.

[–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Great post! Not the best title, but very informative and very important. I knew this was coming and this is why we need to work on planning for the future:

What have I overlooked?

The STABs (shills, trolls, and bots) are not winning yet - but they will. Unless we organize our resistances adequately in a timely manner. The powers that be will never stop and they have UNLIMITED FUNDING as they literally and virtually print money.

On May 1st I got a bunch of sites (more on this soon). Yesterday I bought bunch of groceries. Now I'm fucked for this month. I wanted to get a used circular saw and/or a used air conditioner and/or a new hard drive as I need all desperately. Being so profoundly limited I'm faced with, again, seriously rethinking my strategy for my life and path forward.

[–]Node[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Not the best title,

It was an impulse post after seeing that elsewhere. I agree that they will at some point, as this kind of technology is the inevitable result once you enter the race to advance beyond humanity. At first it will just be the masses controlled and manipulated by AI, but it won't stop until the machines rule our species.

Rethinking your strategy can be a good move. Maybe you'll still come up with your current strategy, or maybe you'll find ways to improve.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Also: /s/Artificial_Intelligen

The fronts to fight on keep narrowing. Eventually the only things to fight for will be to eat, sleep, and breathe - and after one of those is removed...

[–]Node[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Yesterday I bought bunch of groceries. Now I'm fucked for this month. I wanted to get a used circular saw and/or a used air conditioner and/or a new hard drive as I need all desperately. Being so profoundly limited I'm faced with, again, seriously rethinking my strategy for my life and path forward.

Interested in any ideas to potentially help mitigate this situation? I've had some high and some low life experiences, and may or may not know of some coping strategies you haven't thought of. It does sound like you're kind of in a rough spot. No guarantees, of course. Maybe I'd come up with nothing. Maybe something you could use.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Yes, I'm always interested in good ideas.

There are people with worse problems than I have - and that may be my future, especially if I can't get out of this rut. But this rut is stable. For now. My first 25 years I was young and in school. After that I was an animator, senior animator, supervisor, and finally director. Then Big Pharma poisoned me for a decade. I've been beyond hell and back - and lost much of my life, yet remain alive, now 50. I've now had a few years where I might have been able to get a shitty job here in Windsor, where my family brought me when down. Windsor is not my kind of town and it took everything I had to escape it before. There is no work much less heart and soul for me in this banal suburban nightmare. I'd rather be downtown in a big city or in the woods. Regardless, here I am, stable, on disability, finally with ambition again, but without means and with a much shorter future. Plus folks don't see potential in a 50 year old "bum", much less one who's a "professional" truth-seeker and skeptic. I never could and I never will never be able to bite my tongue in any work environment, much less any that exploits me even a little. I'm not out to fight or burn bridges, and even try to avoid that, though it happened on occasion. I've never been too timid to quit or be fired. All that has has it's pros and cons on my career and life.

So I've seen the darkest depths of apathy and despair, but I'm back and motivated and ambitious - but extremely limited. I had limits before but there was more elbow room. I was even able to go to Burning Man every year which was not cheap, but I always managed to scrounge up a few thousand to make it happen. These days I can't even scrounge up a few hundred (no one properly values art much less commercial art around here). That's why I need to finish my "Why I'm Quitting SaidIt" series and focus on finishing my epic screenplay that I'll storyboard/illustrate and publish as a new kind of graphic novel. We're setting up a new server for my sites (a new forum, wiki, PeerTube, etc). There I can present my many options and hopefully the SaidIt community can weigh in and help me determine my destiny. All this sounds great - but it's all taking much longer than I'd like, as things usually do. But the worst part of it is that it's all computer stuff. I wanted to regain some balance, grow a garden, build some things around here, and be self-sufficient and autonomous. Maybe even at fucking 50 to try to find a lady again. But the real world around here has problems, including my new landlord and Judas neighbour, not to mention lockdown, shrinkflation, etc. It seems like my only choice is to escape into my computer life - if only just to get some footing and funding to reemerge into real life, which won't be getting any better under Agenda 2030.

I don't feel good about it but I also don't feel guilty about taking government money for the disability that I don't really have anymore. They were the ones who fucked me in the first place. They certainly aren't paying me much to live on, so it's certainly not a scam I'm pulling as the conservative media would have everyone believe - and the left media who want to promote UBI are selling folks a trap. You won't find a single homeless person who planned to be that way when they were young. Same thing with UBI / disability.

[–]Node[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Sorry for such a delayed reply. I've been commenting like this since 2005 when I chose reddit out of three contenders for my 'main internet site'. Was reddit, stumbleupon, and one I don't remember. But the commenting environment seems to be crashing, and my patience is growing thin. Saidit itself appears to be going down too, with people simply withdrawing from the censorship and erratic behaviors by the admins.

With the government now planning to fund communist witch hunts for internet wrong thinkers - who they refer to as domestic terrorists - this may be the moment to to stop offering them data they could characterize as incriminating. But that's more secondary to the sites themselves becoming untenable, which is leading me to some days not go on the internet at all. And it feels nice to be completely out of the loop on some of this bullshit.

I wanted to regain some balance, grow a garden, build some things around here, and be self-sufficient and autonomous. Maybe even at fucking 50 to try to find a lady again.

Sounds worthwhile. The balance especially. Doesn't mean you have to go out and associate with maskers and vaxxers, but just keep a toe or two in the waters of real life. And btw, 50 is pretty young. At least you'll know anyone interested isn't after your money, and your organs are probably too old to be worth much on the medical black market! See, there are positives in any situation! But seriously, the gardening and balance should remain a part of your life.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Don't sweat it. I'm also terrible with correspondences. I have 724 messages from 2.5 years that I mean to get to, and about as many emails that I never check.

Larry is taking so long with whatever it is he's doing with my server and I got tired of waiting for my MediaWiki that I started this the other day: /s/Cassy/wiki/index and drafted this: /s/Cassy/wiki/progresslog_2021-05-11 which he nor the others haven't gotten back to me about. I wanted to check with them first for stuff I may have missed and I didn't want to take the liberty of overstepping my bounds by speaking for them. I'm starting to feel like herding cats is not the best way to do things, but if we want Full Spectrum Decentralization (another term I came up with recently that I have yet to fully explain and share) the it means we must try to include and accommodate everyone, but not in a commie way.

I'm almost of the mind that I need to just barge ahead and let the other guys just speak up if/when they don't agree.

Saidit itself appears to be going down too, with people simply withdrawing from the censorship and erratic behaviors by the admins.

Sad but true. Tom has disappeared too.

With the government now planning to fund communist witch hunts for internet wrong thinkers - who they refer to as domestic terrorists - this may be the moment to to stop offering them data they could characterize as incriminating.

Fuck that. They'll do it regardless - and dig up your past or find any excuse to sentence you. Don't stop because they sure aren't going to. Go out fighting on your feet, not simpering on your knees.

And btw, 50 is pretty young. At least you'll know anyone interested isn't after your money, and your organs are probably too old to be worth much on the medical black market!

LOL truth!

The older ladies aren't as interested in rebellious guys with nothing to lose who take risks, which is fine by me as I'm not into the older ladies.

[–]FuckMasks 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

What was the name of that big AI robot that came about in the 90s online? It was just a blank as site with a chat box. You could chat with it fairly intelligibly, even throw it complete bullshit and it'd usually figure out how to insult you back. The longer it was around the smarter it was. Anyone remember that thing? Training our own enemy we were.

[–]fred_red_beans 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

ALICE?

[–]RightousBob 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Just wanted to say I love your screen name. Also, I believe the present day version of what you are discussing is called gpt3.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPT-3

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

ELIZA?

[–]FuckMasks 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

No, but similar. It's going to drive me crazy now.

[–]Node[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I missed all of those online AI things. But they're still training them.