Are there vaccine ingredients which may not be disclosed ("hidden", "trade secret", or similar)?

submitted by wizzwizz4 from (skeptics.stackexchange.com)

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[–]roc 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

There is a difference between using human tissue in the development and using it in production. If it was necessary for production, a constant stream of human cell material would be necessary. Read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_fetal_tissue_in_vaccine_development

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

There is a difference between using human tissue in the development and using it in production. If it was necessary for production, a constant stream of human cell material would be necessary. Read about it here:

The virus needs to be reproduced to create the vaccines listed on the previous link.

Each vaccine was developed from human fetal cells, in order to develop the vaccine manufacturing process.

This manufacturing process requires process validation, and validation if the raw materials to demonstrate reliable/on-going manufacturability.

They need to continue using human cells to culture the virus, and if they didn't, then they'd declare what cellular material was used as a substitute. They would love to distance themselves from the use of fetal tissue, so this is a no brainier.

The human cells may be mostly filtered out of the vaccine.

However, there's no possibility of removing 100% of the human proteins, etc.

These process byproducts will remain in the vaccine solution as contaminants.

[–]wizzwizz4[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

However, there's no possibility of removing 100% of the human proteins, etc.

Of course not. Some of those proteins make up the vaccine. But I've got a couple of questions for you:

  • What counts as a "human protein"?
  • Why is it a problem if they're present?

The second one is the important one; I'm struggling to understand your point of view, and in my experience when I feel as certain as I currently do I'm usually wrong.

[–]wizzwizz4[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

/u/Tom_Bombadil

Could you answer my questions please? It's frustrating when you go silent when somebody goes off-script.

[–]wizzwizz4[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Technically it is used in production.

You're right about the constant stream of human cell material being necessary. However, this material can be acquired by allowing the existing stem cells to replicate. Currently, we're still using cultures from the 60's, and by the time that runs out we'll probably have a replacement.

No foetuses need to be aborted to create vaccines. The foetuses used for the strains were aborted for other reasons. If you consider that a foetus gains a soul at conception or soon after, this won't console you much – if it helps, these stem cell cultures have gone on to reduce Rubella-related miscarriages and congenital rubella syndrome, saving the lives of many babies (by every definition of "baby" from "point of conception onwards" to "two years or older").

It's a dreadful thing that we're having to use embryonic stem cells, but if it even saves one life I'm all for it. And, so far, it's saved hundreds and hundreds.