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[–]exPFCwintergreen 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Am now reading a book by Paul Theroux who has lived in and travelled widely in Africa. According to him all the aid to Africa should stop since it creates even more problems for the continent and only serves to buy more Mercedes Benzes for a lucky few. He lived in Malawi in the late sixties, and says conditions are much worse now. Of course the Chinese have their own reasons and are not necessarily concerned with what is best for the people.

[–]useless_aether[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

yes. and even what little aid trickles down through the fingers of the local warlords will just instill learned helplessness. statism needs masses depending on government handouts. in no case can we allow independent people. get em hooked!

[–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I find China's relationship with Africa just fascinating. It's like some sort of neo-imperialism that is entirely economic instead of military. It's actually probably the best way to go about being imperialistic, in certain ways. Definitely more humane than what western countries did to Africa.

[–]useless_aether[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

it might be deceptive. its, the initial, baiting period. afaik, china just opened a military base in djibouti. i think more will follow as their economic interests will inevitably demand it. i dont think imperialism/colonialism can do without military force in a real world. they are trying hard to maintain a nice internatonal image, but if you look at their policies in china, the situation is not so rosy. which one is chinas true face? i always think its the ugly one. niceness is mostly a facade in politics.

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Yeah imperialism is never pretty, and Mao said "political power comes from the barrel of a gun". I didn't know about the military bases, but I'm not surprised.

Still, it's good that they might actually improve the economy there. Kind of like the US did with Japan and Taiwan. They improved their economies so much that they wouldn't consider partnering with China. It's part of the "china containment strategy" in the pacific.

I guess China is doing a similar approach in Africa. I heard Namibia and Angola (far SW africa) have a lot of Chinese people there now. The Chinese government will apparently give your family a stipend if you move from China to Africa. So they're plainly encouraging this sort of "economic takeover" situation. Of course there will be some military aspects to it, but I'd much prefer an economic takeover than a military one, no question there.

I feel like the world has almost reached a stage where military takeovers undergo so much scrutiny and are so heavily shamed, that the only "respectable" way to have an empire anymore is through economics takeovers. But this is a game with diminishing returns, like nintendo selling their consoles at a loss. If there aren't enough other perks to offset it, then they cannot continue because they'll run out of money. So they invest in mines and stuff and try to create new economies.

[–]useless_aether[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

i am sure exporting communist ideology plays a big part in it too. that part of africa always had a huge influence from the soviets and cuba and now china. we see whats going on in south africa.

[–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

exporting communist ideology

Is China even communist anymore though really? It's more like capitalism with a one-party government at this point. Although I guess they might still be exporting the old communist propaganda?

[–]useless_aether[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

well, its a more or less a commie, authoritarian, totalitarian, expansionist dictatorship.

[–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Agreed, but they have quite the free market though now

[–]useless_aether[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

i deny them even that. its a skull and bones creation. i dont see how there can be anything 'free' in an utterly controlled society such as this. freedom is really only found in the dictionary and even there, not for long, i expect. just in case you did not watch corbetts work on china, i highly recommend you watch it. especially relevant in this context is the part about the eight immortals. starts about 31:30. there we can see how economic freedom is merely viewed as 'flies and mosquitos that can be tolerated' (in the interest of bigger gains).

the originally state controlled economy was allowed just enough freedom, so that the immortals and their families can take over the private sector. iow it is free in name only and as is always the case both the state and private economy is controlled by the same actors and at the higher international level by the rockefellers (via CITIC with henry kissinger as one of the brokers and chief adviser).

“Rong senior also played a key role in the further opening up of the Chinese economy after the suppression of the anti-government protests in May and June of 1989. Deng Xiaoping justified the massacre of workers and students in Tiananmen Square on the grounds that it was necessary to defend the ‘socialist system’. In reality, it was aimed at crushing the opposition of the working class to the impact of the regime’s free market policies.”

soon after this, the propaganda about china being the good guy in the us vs china conflict is also highlighted.