Can every political ideology be twisted in a way that keeps women as second class citizens?

submitted by cybitch from self.Gender_Critical

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[–][deleted] [score hidden] stickied comment (2 children)

Unfortunately (as this is an interesting and relevant topic), I think this post is not in keeping with the moderation policy. It's a bit in the gray area, but I don't think I'm doing anyone any favors by not trying to moderate according to the publicly stated rules. Especially if I would moderate another woman who tried responding in a similar way. If you would like to, please resubmit the post after editing to bring it in line with the moderation policy. More details below.

Specifically this rule, under "What content is removed?":

Other content is moderated according to SaidIt's pyramid of debate. Content containing anything from the bottom 4 levels is removed, even if it also contains content from higher levels.

I would consider these things to be light name-calling:

an unusually big amount of these "ladies"

This seems like it was probably meant in an insulting way, but it's hard to be sure, and "ladies" is accurate if one believes these people are not really female ladies. But if you're going to resubmit, please choose a word here that is less likely to be interpreted or misinterpreted as a mild insult.

I'd be willing to bet a lot less men believe in this whole "women have penises" "war is peace" style modern wokespeak

I would consider "wokespeak" here to be a sort of name-calling. It seems to carry negative connotations, delegitimizing these viewpoints, in addition to being descriptive.

And now it seems those woke women have decided to hand the movement over to men in skirts.

I would consider "woke" here to be a mild form of name-calling. I would also consider "men in skirts" to be a mild form of name-calling, though if that were the only thing I would probably leave it alone as it also works as a descriptor.

As this is an interesting topic, I hope you consider resubmitting. Sorry to have to moderate, but keep in mind that the rules are meant to keep this a productive place for discussions between women from very different backgrounds, and hopefully all moderation helps keep things in line with that positive intent. Though I will be removing the post, the content should still be available in your personal account to copy, edit, and resubmit fairly easily as desired.

[–]cybitch[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It was my understanding that the pyramid of debate applied to just that - debate. So, not the original post but the replies. My post isn't a reply to anyone so while it may or may not have terms that some people might consider to be offensive, the context is that of an OP, not a response to someone else's post. I don't really see who exactly I'm calling a name, I haven't spoken of any specific individuals in my post, only made generalizations.

Woke is a rather common term in the US, so I'm surprised you haven't heard of it in a non-offensive context. While my attitude towards this subculture may seem negative, the term in and of itself is not considered a slur as far as I'm aware. As far as wokespeak is concerned, I think it's a perfect term to sum up common phrases that are parroted in the modern liberal feminism community. I indeed don't consider those viewpoints to be legitimate.

Overall, I would question whether the kind of women that would be put off by the word woke and the fact that not every feminist thinks men in skirts are women even exist on this website. Seems like they're more than comfortable on reddit, even if they do have to walk on eggshells around the mtfs there. Either way, even if they do make their way over here, the moment they realize they have to write every post as though it was an academic thesis they will turn right back around.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It was my understanding that the pyramid of debate applied to just that - debate. So, not the original post but the replies.

Imo there is some ambiguity about the rule as it's written for SaidIt. Other people seem to administer it differently, for example magnora7 seems to not remove stuff if it contains anything from higher in the pyramid, even if it also contains stuff lower on the pyramid too. It's my opinion that it's fairer to remove stuff if it contains anything from lower in the pyramid. I tried to explain the way I would be moderating according to the pyramid in the sidebar.

I think it's fairer to moderate submissions as well as replies according to the same rules, even though a submission isn't a reply to anyone. It doesn't seem fair to me to allow women to say low-pyramid stuff in submissions if women who reply wouldn't be allowed to reply in kind in comments.

I agree that "woke" is largely used in a positive sense in the communities that originated the term.

the moment they realize they have to write every post as though it was an academic thesis they will turn right back around.

I would consider this an example of not treating moderators politely and with respect. Stating a disagreement about sub rules can be done without ridicule or exaggeration.

I could be lenient (and it doesn't appear it will impact you much anyhow). But as I said, I don't think "being lenient" helps anyone. And I don't think it's fair to not enforce the rules for one person, if I'd be enforcing them later for another.

This could have been stated politely, and I'm not crazy to think it wasn't. I don't like doing this, and maybe there should be better rules, but I think this is what I meant the rules to mean:

Moderators expect to be treated politely and with respect by anyone addressing them as moderators. Communication to moderators that does not meet this basic criteria results in a removal of the ability of the sender to submit content to the sub or to communicate with sub moderators.

Talking to moderators is supposed to be the way to appeal things, but if someone's already treating moderators without respect in that channel... well. I don't want to put moderators in that position. I don't like banning people forever but I don't like making work for moderators either. This isn't a perfect system but it's what I've got right now, and I think this is how I'll handle these kinds of things here for now.