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[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

you can say that about any minority group bc that is a common way to deflect criticism.

Yeah, you can say it about anyone I feel. "how dare you attack me/my group with that accusation!" And it can be used insidiously, and Jewish people as a group or groups probably have some nontrivial amount of influence, so it's important that women can criticize women who go around condemning "anti-semitism".

Your thoughts about makeup are pretty interesting. The culture I grew up in discouraged me from using it and I never really got into it or good at it. I felt betrayed when I found makeup in my mom's bathroom drawer lol! I had no idea having makeup correlated with women having more rights. And guys have had lots of fancy appearance stuff historically too, come to think of it, especially well-to-do men. Hmm.

I'm sad and angry that I didn't get to read your thoughts about makeup when I was reading GC.

Could you elaborate on your thoughts about homosexuality?

This got long, hope it's interesting. If it's more than you wanted feel free not to read.

tl;dr: homosexual rights activists hid parts of LGBT history including its connection to pederasty, and I don't know how much of what the LGBT dogma says is a lie. however maybe some of it is true, and I have a very incomplete knowledge of the history. I wish people could just talk about it openly.

It's a bit complicated, and I'm rethinking some things since I remembered about Dirt from Dirt's blog. She makes a strong case that there's something called biological homosexuality and that a huge number of people who do not have this trait are getting involved in homosexuality anyway, causing problems. She's not very nice lol. But it's interesting.

Previously, I think I still believe this, that a lot of stuff has been intentionally hidden about LGBT history. I think it started out in these communities where people were calling themselves "greek" (and "lesbian," as lesbos is a greek island, to go with it) after the pederasty tradition that existed in ancient greece. A guy who went by the pen name "Erastes Pill" (an "erastes" was the older male sexual role in ancient greek pederasty) and his friend wrote some guidelines about how to normalize homosexual stuff, you can look it up. Yes, a lot of the stuff is Christian ... when I was wondering about how to vote with the whole Gay Marriage thing, it looked like the only arguments against it only applied to people who were sure the Bible was right about everything, and it wasn't enough to convince me ... but the stuff they dig up is usable by anyone. And I think this stuff really has been hidden, and was hidden from me when I was deciding how to vote, probably intentionally just like they try to censor viewpoints about trans stuff now.

Anyway I think that stuff happened. And I am/was angry about it because it was intentionally deceptive, especially all the censorship of opposing views.

But what was going on in that scene? I don't know. Was it just some sort of weird sexually depraved cult thing? Was it a pedophile grooming club that kinda grew? Was it nice, and sweet, kind, and caring, and just a thing for people with very unusual biology? Was it kinda like the BDSM scene is today? Was it just social, and there wasn't much sex going on at all? I don't know. Maybe if someone else knows they can clear this up.

Anyway before I read Dirt's stuff again I was pretty convinced it was just a thing people like doing, like liking a certain flavor of ice cream or enjoying a certain sport or whatever. And I was angry about how profoundly the connection to procreation has been taken out of "sexuality" as a result of all this discourse. The word the LGBT scene people chose for people who weren't part of what they were doing was "straight" -- why "straight"? "Straight" implies a lot of things besides that. Anyway it seems like maybe there was some sort of deep cultural subversion going on there. Trying to get people not to breed, not to understand that it's important, not to be connected to ... well, anything other than a feeling of being sexually into someone. I also resent what I consider the appropriation of stuff built for procreative families. The word "sex" comes from the root word for "cut," "sexual intercourse" is "intercourse" between the two separated kinds. I resent that there now isn't a word for that special thing that happens that creates new human life. And the relationships and institutions built around it. Again, the only arguments I heard against it a while ago were Christian and I wasn't ... but those aren't the only arguments and considerations available. There was a lot of handwaving away of things I believe are important and I don't like it. I also don't like how it became specifically about LG relationships, and not about family structure and reproduction more generally, but that's kindof a separate issue.

The thing that bothered me most was that you couldn't just talk about this stuff, it was considered hateful. And I don't like that, I don't think it's fair to say you have to have a dogmatic belief about it. There's lots of interesting conversation to be had, just like any other topic, it just became politicized. Stupid politicization they're supposed to be fixing the country not making us angry at each other. Anyway, those are some of my thoughts, I don't feel like I have a complete understanding. Dirt has a very different perspective from me so if this topic interests you, you might enjoy her blog thedirtfromdirt.com, thedirtfromdirt.wordpress.com, dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.com. Someone also shared this with me a while back, which I found pretty interesting, but it may fit with Dirt's impression that most people involved in LGBT are not biologically homosexual: mygenes.co.nz provides scientific information that these things are not biologically determined (this one also discusses transgenderism and biology).

Idk. Like I know there's influence from all sorts of groups that have these super strong opinions about it and go around trying to convert people, but it also seems like people are hiding things, and it's a topic free discussion is so suppressed on. And it's important, people are going around trying to force the entire planet to have one view about it! And it seems hard to find someone who will just talk to me about it.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

Yeah, you can say it about anyone I feel. "how dare you attack me/my group with that accusation!" And it can be used insidiously, and Jewish people as a group or groups probably have some nontrivial amount of influence, so it's important that women can criticize women who go around condemning "anti-semitism".

Yes, I agree with you a lot, nobody should be shielded when it comes to valid criticism or debates, imo

I had no idea having makeup correlated with women having more rights.

Yes, i learned this from the book Face Paint by Lisa Eldrigde, in this book she writes about the history of makeup and its affect on culture, she uses the example of Italy, where prostitutes were allowed to wear makeup and they could own businesses, a better example without sex work involved would also be antient egypit which was the best antient society for women to be at and they could wear as much makeup as they wish My logic behind this is that make up gives you the power to change your appearence and thus control how you will be seen, if this control is taken away from you, other rights can be taken as well Im sorry ur culture is like that with makeup, makeup has helped me a lot on my angsty teen years haha

About homosexuality, i believe it could have been connected to pervesity but it doesn't mean it still reflects such past, because I know and am friends with gay guys, I can see that their sexuality is genuine and doesn't come from or is connected with perverted ideas. And I agree that the movement could be related to cultural subversion, but I would argue it is more so because marxism infiltrated the discourse, heterosexuality is the norm, afterall, as a species, we need to procreate lmao And totally, its refreshing seeing a place where you can comfortably share opinions that are different from what is acceptable I wish people could handle being offended better, so instead of silencing others for not handling different ideas they would just express their thoughts Afterall, if you know your argument, you shouldn't be afraid to have it questioned or to change your thoughts if someone else made more sense than you So yeah, sorry for the long reply haha

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

That sounds like an interesting book! And that explanation of why makeup is important makes sense, that you can use it have more personal control of how people perceive you. It seems pretty straightforward when you put it that way. It'd be like saying you can't use anything but the default website theme or something, lol! It seems so... obvious now, of course it's a good thing to have that control.

i believe it could have been connected to pervesity but it doesn't mean it still reflects such past

Yeah, that makes some sense to me, certainly for some people.

And yeah, it is refreshing to be able to just share ideas openly.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

It really is, which was why I frustrated myself so much trying to get them to understand :P

Thank you for talking to me, it was very productive to discuss this subjects with you :))

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, for me too. Thank you too :)

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I'm glad! If you ever want to talk about any other subject with me feel free to inbox me :)