TERF apparently doesn't know what HRT or SRS do

submitted by theachan from (saidit.net)

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[–]FediNetizen 48 insightful - 5 fun48 insightful - 4 fun49 insightful - 5 fun -  (13 children)

I'm gonna say that you don't know what HRT or SRS do. HRT changes your hormone levels and develops some of the secondary sex characteristics of the opposite sex. SRS surgically alters your genitals to mimic the appearance of the opposite sex. Neither actually changes your sex.

[–]SeasideLimbs 31 insightful - 4 fun31 insightful - 3 fun32 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

This. SRS in particular is a shitshow. Even assuming that the nightmare of a botched surgery doesn't occur (look up some stories about that - it's real-life horror) the results will still be a crude and largely functionally different imitation, at best. "Neovaginas" always lack the depth of a vagina, look different from the outside and are biologically very different, as can be seen in studies like this one. They also either don't lubricate at all or not nearly as well as a vagina. For those who start HRT very early in life (or even use puberty blockers) the penile length they end up with is so small that normal penetrative sex becomes entirely impossible and SRS itself might become an impossibility since there is simply too little material to work with in shaping a neovagina.

The other side has it even worse. Neopenises are basically entirely functionless. They don't look like the real thing at all and do not get erect.

[–]catoboros 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Neopenises can have implants like those used for some cases of male impotence. Jamie Raines on YouTube has some excellent videos on why he chose metoidioplasty over phalloplasty.

Plenty of trans women report satisfaction with their neovagina.

[–]theachan[S] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (10 children)

The things that HRT and SRS change are in the table presented...

[–]FediNetizen 31 insightful - 3 fun31 insightful - 2 fun32 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

And they only make up a small portion of the listed items on said table, which was the point. The fact that the changes often aren't entirely convincing aside, even with the full spectrum of HRT, SRS, etc, you're still not the opposite sex, but the same sex mimicking the appearance of the opposite sex.

[–]catoboros 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

Yes, trans people do not change sex, only sex characteristics (and not all change these). This is one reason why we now use the term transgender rather than transsexual.

[–]FediNetizen 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

But the real reason is political. Part of the modern TQ+ movement is about denying the existence (or at least the significance) of sex. Adopting the term transgender, rather than transsexual, gives cover to the self-ID crowd (i.e. people like Jonathan Yaniv).

Contrapoints at one point described herself as "one of the last of the true transsexuals" and then was forced to apologize for that by the TQ+ crowd. The apology was necessary because they demand the denial of the sex binary.

To claim the name switch was an acknowledgment that transsexual don't actually switch sex is revisionism.

[–]catoboros 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Interesting. I was not there when the switch happened, so I do not know the motivation. I get a lot of rage from the trans community for suggesting that sex is real, binary, and immutable, but it does the trans community no good at all to deny objective biological facts.

[–]theachan[S] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

The most amazing part is that they all have a "usually".

[–]FediNetizen 26 insightful - 3 fun26 insightful - 2 fun27 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Because genetic and physical abnormalities exist. But any deviations from the norm in this case just mean you potentially end up with non-functional reproductive parts. If you were born capable of reproduction, then it won't be ambiguous which sex you are.

[–]theachan[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

You'd be surprised.

[–]firebird 20 insightful - 6 fun20 insightful - 5 fun21 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

Then surprise us.

[–]Maeven 25 insightful - 3 fun25 insightful - 2 fun26 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

HRT and SRS are not natural variations that exist within humans. One of the stances that is being taken is that binary sex differences are real and objectively quantifiable and verifiable and this chart is part of those quantifiable differences.

Binary sex classifications are real and this should not even be a debate. That is what GC is saying and HRT/SRS, being outside natural variation, have nothing to do with that.

[–]catoboros 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, sex is binary and immutable, but gender identity is a different thing, and is entirely subjective.

[–]GConly 17 insightful - 6 fun17 insightful - 5 fun18 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

Well it doesn't change your sex any more than HRT makes me 25.

[–]denverkris 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Now that's something I'd like to see somebody throw some money behind, rather than these elaborate, body altering costumes!

[–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

:D

[–]DauphineJulepe 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

OP, what do you think HRT does? Hormone Replacement Therapy is a hormone treatment for menopause. Transgender Hormone Therapy is a different treatment that uses hormones to more closely align a transgender person's secondary sexual characteristics with their gender identity.

[–]theachan[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Po-tay-to, po-tah-to.

[–]DauphineJulepe 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

No, it's a pretty notable distinction, and it seems deliberately misleading to pretend they are the same medical procedure.

[–]theachan[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Just because I use the same term for multiple things doesn't mean I equate them all.

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

...That's literally a contradiction within the same sentence but ok.