I have no dog in the trans thing and never said I was TG or TS. I make no demands other than to NOT be included in their community.

I used cis correctly. MtF Transsexuals are a subset of cisgender women, and "MtF" transgender is simply a type of men. TS women don't want to be housed with TGs anymore than other women, and should not be forced to do so. A TS's rights come from the vagina and XX chromosomes they were supposed to be born with. MtF TGs were supposed to have their penises and live as the MEN that they are.

It is not dismissive to refer to the MtF transgender men in dresses as what they are, men in dresses and those living fetishes. MtF TSs ARE women, "MtF" transgenders are men. Transsexuals would have more rights overnight if every non-op transgender were rounded up and imprisoned.

And no, I never used actually getting the surgery as a basis, but an inherently feminine nature and the DESIRE to get the surgery based on how the brain is wired before birth. Whether they actually get surgery or not (aging and poverty are factors). I can walk into any room and tell TSs from TGs without any effort. Folks should only be allowed to transition if there is a true need there, and not simply a dress-up game, fetish, or ANY sexual motivation. A paraphilic need is not a gender identity. Desiring to dress up to appropriate women and lord over them is not a gender identity. There are only 2 valid gender identities.

Anyway, please enjoy your day. I believe we have talked this to the end.