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[–]MezozoicGay 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That is very weird case. When women are violently raped in TV series and movies without ever asking their consent, it seems to be fine for some reason, but when something slightly not completely consented happening with a man - whole internet is up and screaming.

In those series it was consensual sex there. He lied to her that he is sterile, while she wanted kids. Instead he was pulling out before finishing to not get her pregnant. When she learned this and she learned how sex and reproduction works (she was very naive and young, never had sex and had no idea how anything works and she did not even know how women can get pregnant, when married him), she decided to try make him finish inside her. So she topped him and he was not able to finish not inside her, without being too obvious that he was lying. She did not even get pregnante there. And whole point of that scene was to show the moment in her life when she realized that even closest people around her are liars and that she should stop being helpless victim and should start taking what she want, ignoring other people's wishes - just like they doing with her. And he is around 30 cm taller than she is.

So he was able to put her from top of him, but for one reason or another decided not to. And after scene he was just ashamed, and sad that she now know the secret.

In book version there was much worse situation - he came home drunk and she used the situation to have sex with him and to overpower him, after the act he felt himself broken and used, and had light mental problems afterwards, which weren't present in TV adaptation. I can't really call it rape in TV adaptation, as everything was consensual, and he just not wanted his lies to be dispelled.

I can think of a range of ways a guy can be "violated" or taken advantage of by a women, but I have a hard time seeing any of that as rape. I know of my share of instances when guys I know can honestly complain about "what that B#&#& did to me" but none of it is rape.

In our country law about rape is considering rape as any sexual intercourse with using genitals without consent, so forced sucking a penis, penetration with any item, or even forced licking vulva will be considered as rape actions. Making woman pregnant, or doing rape with violence or with using official position, or if rapist is related in any way to victim (husband, relative, friends) will double prison term or prison term will be maximum one. Repeated rape may end with lifelong sentence. Same with any sexual offense against minors.

Even with such law at some years we have 0 women rapists.

I would consider man raping woman bigger offense, as she can get pregnant, and damage to her body (and most likely mental health) is bigger as well.

[–]FlippyKing[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think in any of these blow-ups over movies books or tv shows the nuance of the story telling and the purpose these events serve in the story telling is always lost and often on purpose. I didn't see it or read it, but if the lesson she is supposed to learn is to just ignore everyone's wishes then that seems short sighted-- I sort of doubt that's actually the writer's idea. He should learn that his lie has consequences, but he might not be the character on a journey.

I always try to consider law and legal ramifications separate from general discussions in that I don't think a legal standard should be the same as an every-day understanding of things, and I think that because I an doubtful of a government's ability to prosecute issues in a fair manner. I don't think we can or should expect government to solve such matters very often without either abusing their power or just worse convicting everyone they want regardless of the circumstance. I realize rape is the worst example of a crime to hold that kind of view on, but my view is based on my opinion of government and prosecutors and judges and not on the nature of the crime. I agree there should be some legal standard dealing with forced sex regardless of the sex of the individuals and if the umbrella term for it is rape then that might work or it might be painting with too broad of a brush-- I can't say which, and it is only my rather 'anarcho-opinion' about it.

I wonder if this has a tinge of chauvinism to it, but the reality of the risk of pregnancy and just the violation of a woman when a man rapes her makes it a serious crime that guys (including me) have not done enough to deal with among ourselves culturally or socially. It's far worsee than what the tv show depicted, and I blame the fictional dude for lying first and foremost. But we would have to change our culture, because calling out when we hear a dude being blatantly misogynistic is clearly not enough even if it happened enough. Along the lines of my previous reasoning, there's a line between correcting and policing. But I think beneath that, the problem is the way women have been viewed as a commodity or viewed as less than a commodity. I think that rape culture might be at the intersection of a lot of dysfunctional aspects of our culture where a lot of bad behaviors and bad ideas converge on some guys where that's the result.

[–]MezozoicGay 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

To be honest, shown in TV show I can't even call a rape, as it has very different consequences. Book version sounds like sexual abuse/offense, while TV show one is almost completely showing that man is on the wrong side there - and for some reason internet is defending that man and calling woman as rapist.

First of all, sex was with consent up to very last moment, and even last moment he not tried to do anything as it would show his lies and that he goes all the way to support it.

Second part, when man and woman have sex and woman asking "do not finish inside", but men finishes - it is much worse than if man saying "I would like to not finish inside", but woman insist on doing this. In the end it will be woman who will get pregnant, for man nothing will be changed.

And in current situation it is clash of who you support more - grown up man, who not wanted kids in this marriage, so he lied to young naive girl about fact of being sterile, knowing that she has no idea how babies are made, or support young woman who always wanted kids and was very upset that her husband is sterile, but married him nontheless. And even if they will get kids - she would be the one taking care of them, as during those times in most cases women weren't working and men weren't taking care of kids.

That sex not ended in pregnancy, but even if he did, the dilemma is "one not wanted kids and lied, other wanted kids and tried to make them" - who overpowers who, one who don't want or other who want, and why?

I think that rape culture might be at the intersection of a lot of dysfunctional aspects of our culture where a lot of bad behaviors and bad ideas converge on some guys where that's the result.

Agree here.

It is especially visible in asian cultures, especially Japan, with their huge problem of groping, and how they are treating women and rape there in general. Or in China few decades ago, where women were binding their feet to receive injuries to legs for the whole of their life, because it was believed that feet binding is making vagina more tight and that it will bring more pleasure for their future husbands. Women were forced to do this, and who refused was called bad girl and bad wife, who will die alone.

And visible in fact that clitoris researches only started not that long ago, science was trying to avoid recognizing fact that women can have pleasure during sex as well, and that women have libido at all. Nietzsche was focusing all sexuality and libido through men as well.

So there a lot of different factors, misinformation, misbeliefs and traditions which are factoring in it. In current days there is internet culture that is only multiplying all those factors.