all 12 comments

[–]Girlwiththeraventat 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Young men, especially young white men, are bitter because they are being told they are the reason for all the world's problems. Men are being left behind in education and told to deal with it or it's not really a problem. White men are told they are the worst of the worst and they should feel shame for how they were born. And the problem with all that is these are things children are being taught.

We, as a society, have been putting men down to lift other groups up. Which yeah those boys are bitter. Why wouldnt they be? They probably haven't done anything to anyone and dont understand why the world is against them.

So when they find these incel communities, they probably feel relief. Someone finally understands and doesn't blame them.

I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say. I'm agreeing with you that incels are warping otherwise normal boys views. But society is failing young men by villainizing them.

[–]jet199 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Frankly I don't think it's all society.

Testosterone causes feelings of anger even when there is no cause. They look outward for something to justify the feelings they already have. Men from different backgrouds choose different things, a if a guy on MGTOW had been born into a Muslim family they might have fallen into radical Islam instead. The vast majority of crime around the world is caused by men under 25, no matter what the culture or opportunities, because of this problem.

[–]Girlwiththeraventat 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

No I don't think society is only to blame. Obviously every person has personal responsibility. These kids want to rebel and be mad, that's partly from society and partly from being a teenager. Their mind hasn't fully developed at that point. Teenagers mostly cant think about their lives and future long term. They dont realize they won't feel the angst and the anger and the I know everything mindset forever. Its always easier to be a victim and fall into the "everyone else is the reason I suck" mindset. I think part of the reason they feel this way is the alienation from society.

But I agree with you. Teenagers and young adults are generally very dumb and don't understand the long term consequences of their actions.

[–]Edvin 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I think we are seeing progress, at least in North American culture because I can't speak to global culture, with men being able to break out of their typical gender rolls. More men are cooking, and being able to express their feelings instead of being cold and expressionless. I also believe women breaking into more male dominated professions helps too.

[–]Girlwiththeraventat 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I think some of these men/boys dont feel like they have a place in todays society. Maybe they grew up in a traditional household and wanted that for themselves. They see feminists as ruining their chances of having that.

I agree with your point about gender roles. I think men and women would be happier without set gender roles. Everyone gets to be themselves. But now we have TRAs backsliding the gender roles. So once again you can only like "girly" things if you are female and "boy" things if you are male.

[–]Edvin 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Do you think the shift in economy plays a roll as well. Lots of these young men have grandparents that grew up working hard labour jobs in steel mills and other factories. Then there were world wars that their grandparents fought in that shaped the world they are in today. However there is a steady decline in this sort of honest days work in search of cheaper labour over seas as well as wars that we no longer attribute as good vs evil such as World War ii.

[–]Girlwiththeraventat 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You've made a good point about the economy. There are definitely less "manly" high paying jobs available now. Back then you didnt need an expensive education to make a good living. Society now says having a manual labor job is lowly. Society told men for generations that their worth was in being a protector and provider then took that away.

[–]Edvin 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think what you've said is quite insightful and accurate. I believe that these young men most likely don't inherently agree with everything of incel and red pill ideology but they see older men within these communities and attribute a wisdom with their age and life experience. I also think having a scapegoat for their problems is what is really drawing them in because it's comforting to people to be able to put the world into these black and white, simple concepts, when in reality we know that everything exists within a gray area. What I'm always intrigued by is what these incels and misogynists think about their mothers as we are all sons and daughters. I wonder if they attribute the same degrading views to their mothers or if their mothers maintain an immunity in their mind.

[–]filbs111 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's a mixed bag. AFAIK the "redpill" community generally encourages men to improve themselves, because they'll be better off, even if they don't manage to find love.

[–]Saiditfem 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I doubt that. They blame women for every problem they have. Incel communities haven't quite figured out with the porn links right at the top of incel dot co that porn is keeping them hateful too and just viewing of women as objects. Most MRA circles also have gay men that want to use those communities to get straight men into hating women so much they become politically gay while saying No Homo! Yes...people can be groomed at any age. Here is a fine example of a gay man in MGTOW claiming the trans narrative is a good idea to help with the plot.

[–]akkordeonplayer 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Internet porn doesn’t help. They seem to develop an extreme sense of entitlement in regards to women, sex, etc, because they’ve trained their brains to think “everyone is having tons of sex and gets every girl they want all the time!”

[–]MaleFriedanFan 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The trick to understanding this is that they see separate things as related things. Like if you asked what made someone look "manly", many people would list off different physical characteristics. The smartass would say that they showed them their dick. The distinction is that many of the men in those online communities would also list off social and economic characteristics. So to them, there is a general manliness level for each man, and the manly man will have the good job, and the nice girlfriend, and the extroversion, and the big muscles, and the deep voice in equal measure, as though after every raise you get a thicker beard. :) So women become symbolic -- they figure if they can solve their struggle with women, it will magically solve everything because in their minds these are all fundamentally connected, and that if women thwart them, they aren't just showing their personal disinterest, but are causing all the other struggles.