If men aren't allowed to have male only spaces, why should we allow women to have their own spaces?

submitted by Kai_Decadence from self.GenderCritical

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[–]womanual 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Men do not need their own spaces because women do not pose a threat to men. Male privilege means men are more likely to be taken seriously than women. If a man says he's raped by a women, he will most likely be believed, unlike a woman raped by a man who most people will assume she is making false accusations. Yet despite men being more likely to be taken seriously, I can't find a single article online about a man being raped by a woman, or a woman implanting a camera in a public bathroom. Yet I can find plenty of news articles of men raping women. Trust me if a man was raped by a woman it would be all over the news because men are privileged like that. Men would also be more openly sexist.

I also think it's OK for black people to reclaim the n-word but it's racist for white people to use that word, and its OK for black people to have black only spaces but "whites only" is racist. Black people did not systematically enslave white people, or beat and murder white people on a regular basis. They did not deny rights and opportunities to white people.

In 2015, Dylann Storm Roof shot an entire black church after they let him pray for an hour. Later the same year, white supremacist Gregory Bush shot 2 black elders at a Kroger's in Louisville, Kentucky. Minutes before moving to Kroger's, he tried to enter a black church but was denied. See that church had a safety reason to keep out white people, but what reason would a white church have for excluding black people?

Women need their own spaces because many men don't know how to act appropriately or control themselves, as we women know.

IMO men's bathrooms, changing rooms etc. should be made for everyone as men have no need to keep those spaces to themselves. Women's facilities should remain for natal females only. Women should have the option of using both facilities. Some women want to be away from men. Others do not care. Men should use the common facilities which should be designated for both sexes.

[–]WildApples 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Male privilege means men are more likely to be taken seriously than women. If a man says he's raped by a women, he will most likely be believed, unlike a woman raped by a man who most people will assume she is making false accusations. Yet despite men being more likely to be taken seriously, I can't find a single article online about a man being raped by a woman, or a woman implanting a camera in a public bathroom. Yet I can find plenty of news articles of men raping women. Trust me if a man was raped by a woman it would be all over the news because men are privileged like that.

I strongly disagree. I agree that men are much less likely to be sexually assaulted by women, but when they are I do not think it is taken seriously at all. People find the idea of a woman assaulting a man funny, so a male victim would likely face incredulity, shame, and ridicule if he came forward. Also, the idea that men are always up for sex and lucky to get it means there is a cultural idea that men cannot be harmed by sexual assault. For these reasons, when men are sexually assaulted by women, they are less likely to come forward, less likely to be taken seriously when they do, and less likely to receive appropriate emotional support.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This might be true but who are the ones who usually berate and belittle men who get assaulted by women? It's usually other men. I'm not saying that the assault is right because it absolutely isn't no matter woman or man but I think if men stopped making fun of other men for things like that (and especially mentally health, this whole "suffer in silence" thing), it would certainly help.

[–]womanual 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I disagree. Male privilege means men and boys are more likely to be taken seriously than women and girls in every facet of society. I've personally seen this in my life. I've worked in places where men's ideas were taken more seriously than women with way better ideas. Likewise, when a man claims to be raped by a woman, he is more likely to be believed and to be given resources than a woman alleging she was raped by a man. I am a petite woman, but even if a man twice my strength and size claims I assaulted him and whatnot, he is more likely to be believed simply because he's a man. That's the consequences of living in a society where men are privileged.

I don't know anyone who thinks a woman assaulting a man funny. In fact, I see the opposite. When women talk male violence against women, men love to deflect the conversation with wHaT aBoUt ThE mEn or mEn ArE nOt TaKeN sErIoUsLy when we know that’s not true. Men are more likely to be taken seriously, even when they falsely accuse women of rape. Google "woman rapes man" or "women gang raped man" and you will find ZERO articles about women raping men, but hundreds of articles about men raping women. I'm not saying it's impossible for a woman to rape a man, but I know if it happened it would definitely be covered by a major news source like ABC, CBS or NYT simply because we live in a patriarchal society where men are respected. But I can't find such articles? I wonder why. Based on this, I think it's extremely rare for a woman to rape a man, if it happens at all.

[–]FlippyKing 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I really don't think a man who claims to be raped by a woman is more likely to be believed than a woman claiming to be raped by a man. There are still many who just reject the notion that a woman can rape a man. I might be one of those actually. I think in England the act would have to be called sexual assault legally because of how rape is defined. I absolutely can see sexual assaults done to men by women (however rare that would be) and psychological damage being done to LATE adolescent boys by adult women (but I also don't think such boys always suffer the kind of harm in those situations as adolescent girls suffer. I'm not saying it's right or anything like that.)

I don't think the fact that in the work place your ideas are ignored while some guy's ideas are taken more seriously transfers over to rape. Are there groups who will take such things more seriously? Probably. Are there groups, especially on the internet, that drum everything up into a category 5 hurricane during a civilization-ending asteroid collision? Yes. But I think in general society, the idea of a woman raping a man is still largely laughed off and only after some details are shared is the matter assessed. "Believe all men" was never a hashtag for good reason. Also, probably too many cheating guys tried offering up some version of that as an excuse: "What??? NO! It was her! I was just ... (insert what ever circumstance the guy was caught in) ... and she came along and ... she couldn't resist me. Stop laughing sweety, some find me irresistible it seems. This is difficult enough already. Don't go. Please."

[–]jjdub7Gay Male Guest Commentator 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s extremely rare, except for the niche circumstance of female teachers seducing their high school students, and then it’s nearly 100% female perpetrators. And yes, statutory rape is rape.

**** sexual assault, not rape

[–]jjdub7Gay Male Guest Commentator 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

its OK for black people to have black only spaces but "whites only" is racist

The very amendment that abolished slavery says “equal protection under the law”. It’s doesn’t have an exception for whichever race is the majority.

What if I wanted to have an Italian social club to celebrate aspects of my heritage? I would certainly hope nobody not of Italian heritage would presume to be welcome in as a member under normal circumstances.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Men do not need their own spaces because women do not pose a threat to men. Male privilege means men are more likely to be taken seriously than women. If a man says he's raped by a women, he will most likely be believed, unlike a woman raped by a man who most people will assume she is making false accusations. Yet despite men being more likely to be taken seriously, I can't find a single article online about a man being raped by a woman, or a woman implanting a camera in a public bathroom. Yet I can find plenty of news articles of men raping women. Trust me if a man was raped by a woman it would be all over the news because men are privileged like that. Men would also be more openly sexist.

I agree wholeheartedly with this and I know what you said is truth. I remember when I first peaked and was trying to understand more of the radical feminist perspective, I got in an argument with some MRA about rape and how "men get raped by women just as much as women get raped by men". I was curious so I tried to look for cases that had a woman raping a man and I couldn't find any documented case at the time. I did a quick search now and only came up with two cases but I understand that the underlying point is that men raping women is FAR MORE frequent than the reverse. And you're right, if men raping women was as common as some of these men claim, we would be seeing these case stories all over in the media.

I also think it's OK for black people to reclaim the n-word but it's racist for white people to use that word, and its OK for black people to have black only spaces but "whites only" is racist. Black people did not systematically enslave white people, or beat and murder white people on a regular basis. They did not deny rights and opportunities to white people.

As a black person, this is an interesting perspective. I personally don't think anyone should be saying the N-word in earnest because it's such an ugly word but that's my own opinion of course. Though I thank you for explaining the difference between an all-black space vs an all-white space. I remember seeing some white people in the past complaining how it's unfair for them to not have an all-white space yet black people are allowed to and it not being racist.

In 2015, Dylann Storm Roof shot an entire black church after they let him pray for an hour. Later the same year, white supremacist Gregory Bush shot 2 black elders at a Kroger's in Louisville, Kentucky. Minutes before moving to Kroger's, he tried to enter a black church but was denied. See that church had a safety reason to keep out white people, but what reason would a white church have for excluding black people?

Totally understandable perspective. I can't recall ever hearing about a black individual shooting up an event or space that had a majority white turnout.

IMO men's bathrooms, changing rooms etc. should be made for everyone as men have no need to keep those spaces to themselves. Women's facilities should remain for natal females only. Women should have the option of using both facilities. Some women want to be away from men. Others do not care. Men should use the common facilities which should be designated for both sexes.

While I think that a third space that is unisex would be the best middleground, I do understand why you feel the way you do because men don't actively pose a threat to women for obvious reason.

[–]jjdub7Gay Male Guest Commentator 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Totally understandable perspective. I can't recall ever hearing about a black individual shooting up an event or space that had a majority white turnout

Uh, that guy in Kenosha ran over 47 white people with his SUV at the Christmas Day parade. Less than 4 months ago.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh crap I forgot about that one. I remember reading about that maybe 2 or 3 days after it happened but no one I knew personally was talking about it and I'm not on Twitter all that much.

[–]womanual 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

While I think that a third space that is unisex would be the best middleground, I do understand why you feel the way you do because men don't actively pose a threat to women for obvious reason.

What would a 3rd space do though, since men don't need their own special spaces?

[–]jjdub7Gay Male Guest Commentator 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don’t want females in the men’s facilities either. “To each their own” worked wonderfully for millennia in that regard.