all 9 comments

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

But yeah, I saw a comment on a Youtube video with Posie Parker talking to the Triggonemetry guys and the guy was saying that women have no right to complain about having their spaces invaded when women have invaded men's spaces. I asked him to clarify and give me examples because I had not heard of this at all and he said that whenever MRAs try to have an event, that feminists try to shut it down and that feminists are hypocritical because they say want to speak up on women's issues but talk down on MRAs who try to discuss male issues.

Please ask this person to name exactly which MRA events and men's events generally feminists have tried to shut down?

Women have campaigned to be allowed to have a shot at participating in orgs and spheres of life from which we were historically excluded entirely, or in which our numbers were kept very low by quotas and the intentional creation of environments hostile to females, based solely on our sex for no justifiable reason: the ballot box; numerous jobs, lines of work and professions that historically were male-only; schools that barred us like Yale, Princeton and Dartmouth; specialist education and professions such as medicine, law, business, engineering, architecture, the "hard" sciences where there were quotas on the number of females allowed in so it would be guaranteed that women would remain only a teeny-tiny minority; the corridors of governmental power such as state and national legislatures; the judiciary; corporate management and the executive suite; male-only clubs where men met to make political, legal and business deals and alliances; sporting events from which women were explicitly barred such as all amateur road running events in the US, whether casual community races just for fun or major events like the New York and Boston Marathons...

But feminists never lobbied against men having their own events or orgs apart from women. For example, when previously all-male schools like many of the Ivy League were opened to female students, feminists did not say that male students should no longer be able to have their own sports, dormitories or fraternities.

AFAIK, feminists have never tried to shut down events like the Million Man March; seminars for males to learn the tricks of male PUAs; men's self-help groups like all-male AA and NA meetings; or any male-only support groups.

Feminists have never tried to shut down a minyan at a Jewish synagogue, male-only services at mosques, or a meeting of the RC College of Cardinals or the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. Feminists have never tried to shut down sports events featuring only male athletes or male professional sports leagues like the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL or FIFA. Feminists have never tried to shut down all the clubs, bath houses and locales such as Fire Island Pines where gay men historically have met exclusively with other men for the purpose of socializing, having sex and building politcal alliances. Feminists have never tried to shut down or silence any Gay Men's Chorus.

During the AIDS crisis, feminists didn't try to prevent men from meeting about it. When men in NYC founded the org called Gay Men's Health Crisis, feminists didn't protest its name or say that it was exclusionary. Some of us volunteered to pitch in and help.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Right, you raise a lot of good points and I've tried looking into these things that these men claim women caused and I couldn't really find anything so it sounds to me like a lot of these men are just talking out their butts and grasp on the very rare instance where a woman did something wrong and got away with it.

And what you shared at the bottom is why I don't let other men just run their mouth blaming women for problems that men by and large caused for themselves/ourselves. Women were the ones who lent a hand to vulnerable men when they didn't have to.

[–]our_team_is_winning 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Men's Rights Activists are horrible people. There's just no other way to put it. In theory, they're standing up for men who believe divorce and custody battles are unfair. I have a male cousin who DID get really screwed over in his divorce and had to pay a lot $$$$ to his ex for the kids, and then she used it for herself, and he STILL had to buy all their clothes, etc. on his visits with them. It DOES happen.

But MRA as a group are women haters. They are like if incels had managed to get married briefly -- same hatred of women.

MGTOW, MRA, incel, transcel, misogynist, male TRA, pornsick, "Loveshy," woman hater -- all interchangeable once you listen to them. That's what I learned from interacting with the manosphere.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Ah okay, well that certainly helps paint a much more clearer picture. I have listened to a few MGTOW videos a couple years back and in the back of my mind it felt like these men were just bitter people what with the talk of "the wall" and all that other stuff. It's what drove me from not wanting to listen to anymore of it.

In the situation like your cousin who got reamed hard in the divorce court system, if men were coming together to talk about those more extreme situations, would that still be considered toxic?

[–]our_team_is_winning 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Divorce and custody issues seem totally legit to me. But MRA just hate women. As soon as you hear men say "you feminists," you know they just hate women.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

As soon as you hear men say "you feminists", you know they just hate women

I think you're absolutely right about that. Every time I see a controversial thing that's mostly about annoying liberal "feminism", I would see guy comments that go "you feminists" followed by some inane thing and it just showed that they hate women, even on second wave feminists who were discussing real issues that affect women. It's pretty gross.

[–]xandit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think they trig boys were referring to things like girls joining Boy Scouts, but pose said it was unfair accusation and brought up women trying to get into networking type of situations, that were male only.

[–]Radish 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

perhaps a woman perspective could help clear up for me.

Nearly half the people in the world are women. We are not a monolith and have a variety of opinions.

I didn't answer your question at first, because it comes off to me as a bit disingenuous. I do think if you looked up Men's Rights, and read some of the things they say and language they use to talk about women, you might understand why many women would have a problem with them. I really don't care much about those people, and stay away from them.

Many of these things you can look up, like divorces statistics. In the US, custody is agreed on by both parties more than half the time. A great many more come to a mutual decision through negotiation. Of the small number (less than 5%) of cases where it goes to court, the outcome favors the man by a small margin (something like 57%)

Also, not sure what you mean by male shelters - the homeless population in general needs more shelters, and they tend to be mostly male out there. If you're talking DV shelters, those started closed down because men won't use them. Also, women started and ran their own shelters on their own. Men aren't doing this, and MRAs are blaming women for not doing it for them.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I really was being sincere. I was and still am quite uneducated with the MRA thing outside of the anger induced rants I have seen by some of the channels. But what I was not sure how to feel about when a woman calls a man an "MRA" as an insult because these men who call themselves "Mens Rights Activists" wouldn't even think it was an insult or problematic.

I guess my question is that when a feminist calls a man an MRA, is it meant as a term used to explain that the person (since I've seen women called this as well) is not worth bothering to talk to?