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[–]shinnygummy[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

But aside from this and what she said about how any man who dresses in feminine clothing are perverted fetishists

This is fucked up. She's literally creating hateful propaganda against you and people like you. I haven't seen all her videos, so I hadn't heard her say that, but I find that and the other thing I mentioned in my main post homophobic. She also called Blaire White an AGP which I think is ridiculous, he's just a gay guy. The trans thing is making homophobia worse and she's perpetuating it even though she's supposed to be on "our side".

[–]Kai_Decadence 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

She said it in the video "Men in dresses are not our allies", it was a snippet from a livestream she did. I remember commenting on it and we had a short little back and fourth and it ended with us agreeing to disagree. It was pretty civil all things considered, I was just taken aback that she believes that but then again, I understand why because so many AGPs can be so... Uncouth and it probably did get to her, especially since she does have some more conservative views. And since men like me (the ones who dress unironically feminine with no sexual pretense) are rare to come across, it can be harder to see that not all men who present femininely are doing it for a fetish.

Her comments on Blaire White, I could sorta see where she was coming from because of the various things that Blaire does that are pornographic stereotypes of women like mostly dressing in lingerie as outfits and/or short skirts/mini dresses with high heels and always showing off his moob cleavage. The lip popping, the dead eyed/open mouth look he'd do in his thumbnails (he doesn't do it as much anymore), this photoshooot he did, how he would jiggle his moobs on camera sometimes in his videos/interviews, etc. I don't know if "AGP" is the right term for it but it's clear that Blaire acting this way may reflect on how he thinks women are. But where the AGP doesn't make sense for him is that I'm more than sure he does all those things to be seen as attractive to men and isn't getting off on it himself per say but getting off on the praise he gets from comments but especially the comments from men, that's usually how it is for HSTS.

[–]our_team_is_winning 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

And since men like me (the ones who dress unironically feminine with no sexual pretense) are rare to come across, it can be harder to see that not all men who present femininely are doing it for a fetish.

I'm sure she meant AGP, not goth men. (Our beautiful Kai needs to get Vanessa on his YT channel, hint hint!!!) Like you said, the androgynous goth look (which my generation loved!) isn't really around now, or if it is, it gets mistaken for transvestitism. Take a really mainstream pop star like lipstick-wearing Robert Smith -- married to the same woman for FOREVER -- it's a fashion. Oh how I miss the days when people dressed for FUN and not for some made-up "gender identity" claim. It annoys me no end how 21st century AGP activists might try to claim 70s and 80s goth styles as "trans."

That photoshoot link to Blaire -- wow, he looks 100% male in that pose!

[–]Kai_Decadence 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I thought she meant AGP men as well but then when I was having my back and forth comment with her in the comments section, she kinda revealed a little more about her feelings on men wearing things like dresses and skirts. I'll give her the makeup argument because she was being consistent in the sense that she thinks no one, woman or man should be wearing makeup because of the ingredients used in it but the skirts and dresses thing is where she had a tad more stronger views on. She was mainly saying that men (she was specifically say "you" but I get what she was trying to infer) who wear dresses and skirts do it for attention whether positive or negative and when I explained that I thought "men's clothing" was boring and restrictive, she replied that I felt that way because men's fashion makes men blend together and not stand out from one another and so I started wearing skirts to be seen as different.

But the thing is that even if skirts were normalized for men, I'd still occasionally wear them like I do now because I just think they look nice (mostly maxi skirts) and they go well with the style I like to go for in my own personal look.

You're probably right that maybe she wasn't trying to infer that every man who wear feminine garb do it for fetish but it just kinda came off that way at the time.

Unfortunately I was born in 91 so I missed the 80s but I watch videos of what it was like and it was so cool seeing men and women breaking the gender norms and not calling themselves some made up "Gender identity" and just more or less owned it. Robert Smith, Siouxsie Sioux (when she wore pantsuits), Pete Burns, Annie Lennox, etc. It was great. Heck even Boy George came out telling people to stop worrying about pronouns, it was awesome lol.

Blaire White's photoshoot

I know haha. But it's the comical hip pads that really got me, it's just not flattering at all...

[–]our_team_is_winning 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Oh I'm sorry to hear Vanessa V was including men who dress differently for fun. Well, come on, Vanessa, everyone who likes to be different or stand out can use fashion. Fashion is fun, especially when you have your own style.

People claiming that clothes determine a person's sex is the problem, and she knows that.

[–]Kai_Decadence 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah I mean I'd like to hope that maybe I'm really just misinterpreting her but it's just that the tone of her in the video and how she came across in our little chat just seems like she really does feel a certain way about men wearing feminine items and then how she thinks it's no big deal if a woman decides to wear a skirt or pants.

People claiming that clothes determine a person's sex is the problem, and she knows that.

Yeah it should be about choice I feel.