Women's perspective on sexualized video game female characters? (Mortal Kombat, media aimed at women)

submitted by Kai_Decadence from self.GenderCritical

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[–]lefterfield 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

a sexy female outfit is something that looks stylish and something that you could see a woman who happens to like having sex appeal in her look wear.

I could agree with this. I think more important than the clothes themselves is the choice behind it: Why does this character dress this way, how does it reflect their personality? If it doesn't, or if there's no thought to it, then that's just eye candy for men. I like the example of Buffy. Overall it was a good show, with a few maybe questionable episodes(for many reasons other than sexualization).

Personally what it comes down to for me is 'balance'. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with women wanting to look good or "sexy", and I don't think society will ever have identical beauty standards for men and women. I'm ok with that. What I'm not ok with is women being expected to spend hours on physical appearance, with no comparable standard for men. Or using products or wearing clothes that are actively harmful to their health. As far as video games, I think there can be some stylized designs that wouldn't necessarily reflect real life. Fantasy doesn't have to. And if the intention is campy, over-the top elements, then character designs could be a part of that, and I don't take issue with it.

But there's a lot of games that have ridiculous (female) character designs for seemingly no purpose in the game world or story telling elements. It just comes across as lazy, and is offensive for that reason in addition to the overt sexualization. I agree with you, a woman could be given a sexualized design if that is a choice made for character reasons(and explained in some manner within the story). But if every woman - and only the women - are designed that way, it's male-gaze manipulative trite.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Why does this character dress this way, how does it reflect their personality? If it doesn't, or if there's no thought to it, then that's just eye candy for men.

Exactly. I wish I brought this angle up during the debate. It's all about the "why". Why does the character wear what she does? In the case of Morrigan from Darkstalkers, I get why she would dress like that, she's a succubus and succubus use their sex appeal to lure in victims to drain the life force of. Granted Morrigan is not an evil character but still, I get why she's designed the way she is. Meanwhile as much as I like her, a character like Ivy Valentine from Soul Calibur, they don't really give an explanation about why she wears what she wears. She's an English Aristocrat who also practices alchemy so why would she be wearing a dominatrix outfit of all things? What's her reason for it? And she's also celibate. I actually do like some of her looks, mainly her look from the 5th game which was easily her best main outfit imo but yeah, that's one that always perplexed me. At least with a character like Mileena, we know why she does it. She does it because she's an assassin and wants to catch her mostly male opponents and targets off-guard to go in for the kill. Or someone like I-No from Guilty Gear, it's because she's a overly confident woman who also has a carefree nature to her (going off of her taunts and idle animations).

So yeah, sexy design with reason is the way that it should be done.

I like the example of Buffy. Overall it was a good show, with a few maybe questionable episodes(for many reasons other than sexualization).

Right. I mean it's been a minute since I've seen Buffy but going from the outfits, I don't think we ever saw a "sexy" outfit that looked porn-star level quality and I think that's the point that the guy I was debating with wasn't grasping.

Personally what it comes down to for me is 'balance'. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with women wanting to look good or "sexy", and I don't think society will ever have identical beauty standards for men and women. I'm ok with that.

I understand and agree with this. Sexy female characters are not a big deal so long as there are sexy male characters too and I think this is where Soul Calibur and Tekken kinda do that. Emphasis on kinda because with Soul Calibur, the character Voldo is implied to be the male equivalent of Ivy and uh... I mean it's an old man in his late 60s, not be ageist but it doesn't compare to a woman in her late 20s lol. But ignoring that, I'd say that a lot of the male characters do have sex appeal as well. And same deal with Tekken.

Fantasy doesn't have to. And if the intention is campy, over-the top elements, then character designs could be a part of that, and I don't take issue with it.

So would you say that the outfits in Mortal Kombat 9 fit this?

But there's a lot of games that have ridiculous (female) character designs for seemingly no purpose in the game world or story telling elements. It just comes across as lazy, and is offensive for that reason in addition to the overt sexualization. I agree with you, a woman could be given a sexualized design if that is a choice made for character reasons(and explained in some manner within the story).

Agree 100%

But if every woman - and only the women - are designed that way, it's male-gaze manipulative trite.

And that's the issue with games like Dead or Alive and the way the women but I feel like arguing about DOA with these guys is kinda pointless because at the very least, the creator of the game made it known that the game was supposed to be wank fodder and I can at least respect his honesty even if it's demeaning. I'd rather have that then people making excuses you know?

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Agree with all of this.

Lol, those Mortal Combat 9 outfits look pretty ridiculous. I'd wager it's more about eye candy. With the Buffy example, it's also the case that the vast majority of the show is focused on the relationships between the characters. Buffy may be intended to look sexy, but most of what I remember of the show(along with most of the fanbase) are things like her killing Angel, the fight with the Mayor, various speeches that she gave, etc. So it seems the sex appeal wasn't the point, or the focus.

I'd rather have that then people making excuses you know?

For sure. I believe in free expression, so long as actual women aren't being harmed. If someone wants to make a wank fodder game, they have that right. And I always prefer people being honest about their intentions than pretending what they're doing is normal/expected. But yeah, arguing with guys that want to deny why they're interested in the game, not likely to go anywhere.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Lol, those Mortal Combat 9 outfits look pretty ridiculous. I'd wager it's more about eye candy. With the Buffy example, it's also the case that the vast majority of the show is focused on the relationships between the characters.

Exactly. It's like I mentioned above, these MK9 outfits were purely just about eye-candy/wank fodder and not much thought put into most of them. I wouldn't have been annoyed with the guy if he was just upfront about them and just said he likes looking at pornstar looking women. It'd be better than him trying to justify why they looked like that for "practicality" and "empowering" reasons lol.

But yeah, arguing with guys that want to deny why they're interested in the game, not likely to go anywhere.

Yeah you're right. When the MK11 controversy first came out years before the game came out when they revealed the character Skarlet's new look, there was an outcry of MK fanboys whinging and going "they're bringing censorship to the women" and things of that nature and some of the complaints were just so dumb and overly dramatic and the justifications for why they thought the old design method aka pornstar look was better were hilarious (and annoying). I tried to explain from a design perspective as I'm a character designer in training myself about why they most likely did this change and it was just clear they want their porn fantasy. Which okay fine, but at least be honest with it lol.

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Seriously. The old version she looked like a striper or a concubine. Her new look is badass, but still sexy. Beyond the aesthetics, it makes a lot more sense for a ninja to be wearing the new costume.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree. These people complain that she's wearing a Hijab (which she isn't) and saying that they're trying to bring Sharia Law to MK with her new default look but to me, she just looks like a badass assassin and actually fits the job title now. She really did look like a stripper/concubine, heck they even put her in a concubine/slave position in Shao Kahn's level here along with Kitana as well

I've heard complaints that it didn't make sense for Skarlet to wear an outfit like that because she uses Blood magic but they didn't understand that she uses the blood of her opponents for a lot of the tricks she does, not her own unless she's regenerating herself. Thankfully the hate on her redeisgn has led up since the first year the game was out but I still remember the outcry lol.