Women's perspective on sexualized video game female characters? (Mortal Kombat, media aimed at women)

submitted by Kai_Decadence from self.GenderCritical

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[–]Spikygrasspod 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

"he (guy I was debating) was trying to explain why a lot of the female outfits from Mortal Kombat 9 can be seen as empowering, liberating, and practical"

I don't believe for a second that he believes this. He knows soft core porn when he sees it, and he likes it. It's not that he doesn't understand your arguments, it's that he likes the porny women's outfits and doesn't care if it affects women negatively. For an in depth critique of hyper sexualised femininity, I would recommend Sheila Jeffreys' book Beauty and Misogyny. Suffice it to say that I don't think 'empowering' is a very meaningful word in this context (exactly what kind of power are we talking about?), and I think women and girls choose sexiness because we're groomed into it and given few opportunities for achievement, respect, self respect or status that don't hinge on male sexual approval.

(I play games but mostly RPGs like the dragon age, fallout or elder scrolls series where the sex of my character doesn't affect the look very much. I wouldn't want to play a game where the women look like some pornsick male's jerkoff material)

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah see, this is the stuff I need to hear and try and engage with because I know that some women who do think overly sexualized designs are "empowering", they may not realize that they're groomed into liking it because they want to please men. An experiment I usually try to ask women who think this way is whether or not they'd wear some of these overly sexualized outfits if they were alone on a remote island with monsters that they'd have to defend themselves from (I add the monster bit to try to have these women imagine if we were in some video game fantasy world since we're talking about gamers here lol) and sometimes the point does get across that maybe just maybe they think they want to wear these outfits for themselves when they subconsciously want to do it to be seen as sexually attractive to men. And I don't shame them but I try to get them to think about it a little more so they can understand the opposing side a little more.

I don't believe for a second that he believes this. He knows soft core porn when he sees it, and he likes it. It's not that he doesn't understand your arguments, it's that he likes the porny women's outfits and doesn't care if it affects women negatively.

I think you're most likely right. When I tried to explain to him about why these outfits from MK9 are just not empowering and that I hardly see women actually genuinely praise these outfits (not unless they're professional cosplayers who get paid to model) he tried to divert attention to the fact that he grew up with only his two sisters and his mother and how they don't mind this kinda stuff and read magazines that featured sexy women on them, I kinda suspected that he still just wasn't grasping what I was saying. He was also trying to say that the empowerment comes from the fact that some of the characters like Kitana, Mileena, and Sheeva have visible abs and that it can be seen as a sign of strength but what he seemed to be ignoring was how all the female characters had like Double D-E size breasts with their butts exposed and just overall looked like pornstars. And then tried to flip it by bringing up how it's a double standard because some of the male characters were shirtless. He didn't seem to understand that shirtless male characters aren't designed to be sexy, at lrast not intentionally compared to a woman wearing an outfit like Kitana's MK9 look where it's just... What is empowering about this? or this (her alternate look from the same game It's just pornstar fodder.

(I play games but mostly RPGs like the dragon age, fallout or elder scrolls series where the sex of my character doesn't affect the look very much.

Oh cool. I'm not really into those kinds of games but I can see why they're popular. Would you say that the official female characters in those kinds of games are positive?

I wouldn't want to play a game where the women look like some pornsick male's jerkoff material.

That's perfectly understandable. But would you say that when it comes to these sexualized designs, do you think that a character could be designed as sexy without looking like a total porn fantasy character?

[–]Spikygrasspod 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"An experiment I usually try to ask women who think this way is whether or not they'd wear some of these overly sexualized outfits if they were alone on a remote island with monsters that they'd have to defend themselves from"

Hehe. The monsters is a nice detail because we do in fact internalise our society's requirements so thoroughly that they often feel as though they're coming from ourselves. De Beauvoir talks about this in The Second Sex in her chapters on girlhood and upbringing. Girls are taught to be self conscious of themselves as an object, and receive approval for looking good. We're aware of ourselves as selves, that is, conscious beings who are the centre of our own experiences, and at the same time we're expected to see ourselves as objects for the consumption of others. We reconcile these by internalising the social requirements, the male gaze, and pretending that it comes from our selves.

A more effective line of questioning might be to ask your female acquaintances if they are okay with little girls being absolutely surrounded by incredibly sexualised media, in which women show their worth by being fuckable. Even if they have reconciled these facts with their own "preferences", they may still have empathy for younger girls. As for the dude? Just tell him you don't like pornography in your games. You don't have a double standard because you're not asking for pornified men in your games.

The women in the elder scrolls are varied: warriors, farmers, bandits, assassins, etc. They're not positive so much as just human, like the men. There are a couple of slightly sexier outfits (tavern serving maid has a low cut dress, for example) but mostly not, and nothing porny.

"would you say that when it comes to these sexualized designs, do you think that a character could be designed as sexy without looking like a total porn fantasy character?"

I'm not sure what you mean by sexy. If you mean overtly sexualised to cater to men's hard ons, then I'm not into it. Women characters should have cool, non-sexualised costumes, normal clothing based on them being people, not sex objects. Anyone who's attracted to women will still find them attractive, just as people who are attracted to men are still attracted to them even when they're fully dressed.