AGP is not an orienation!

submitted by PotatoCake from self.GenderCritical

Hello! I am new to posting here-long time fan. Old Reddit user before the banwave. I have received a few Ovarit codes in my day, but am not requesting that now. I am a member of groups I will not mention here which support women in the US--a big known one that howls in the night. I have followed many of the things you have. Recently, I watched a video in horror made by the Gender Dysphoria Alliance in Canada where Aaron Kimberly (sigh) said that AGP is a sexual orientation.

As I am whistle blowing on something else (quite literally and I am about to land in national news), and I will soon be cancelled and my career tanked, I thought I might as well make a video correcting this person using my credentials to do so.

See you soon in the news! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p8LQOWEXxA

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[–]slushpilot 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

26:00 is an important point, I did not realize this:

DSM5 changed the definition of "paraphilia" to consider consent of the other party, normalizing it based on that metric.

Now, consider that "the other party" just means the "target location" for erotic arousal: the argument suddenly falls apart when you include the "auto-" paraphilias which are based on a target location error.

Does that suddenly mean that because a man gives himself consent, that makes anything normal?

[–]soundsituation 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just a suggestion, do with it what you will, but would it be possible to add time stamps?

[–]Femaleisnthateful 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I personally don't have a problem with describing AGP as a sexual orientation. I haven't delved extensively into Blanchard and Bailey's work on it, but I understand it as an inversion of heterosexuality.

The problem arises from queer theorists and transactivists denying the existence of AGP and conflating the experience of it with the experience of actually being a woman.

Will keep an eye out for you in the news.

[–]slushpilot 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I guess the argument is that AGP is technically a paraphilia and not an orientation.

I've thought about this too: is a preference for solo masturbation (an aversion to intimate relationships with others) an orientation or a sexuality? Technically it could be defined as who you want to have sex with (self-love) but the reasons behind it might actually be more significant than the manifestation.

Perhaps different reasons, like trauma, all lead to the same thing, and those things are what actually needs to be addressed and explored. But I don't know, I'm not an expert.

[–]jjdub7Gay Male Guest Commentator 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

the argument is that AGP is technically a paraphilia and not an orientation

Yes, but Blanchard's typology makes sense in this context when you realize that the paraphilia becomes all-consuming to the point of eclipsing the primary orientation - i.e. why we see so many extreme, hyper-performative examples of heterosexual father-of-five, longtime-married AGPs troon out in cartoonish fashion and end up engaging in sex acts with men to validate the "identity".

Of course lesbians are the ultimate validation, but a large proportion of the worst-affected seem to be willing to take whatever sexually-based validation they can get, so long as they are in the conceptual role of "woman". These males are not suddenly bisexual; on the contrary, this would seem to indicate the extreme levels to which many of them have objectified the conceptual (and real-world) "woman", that they in turn act out this performative role assumption.

[–]soundsituation 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've thought about this too: is a preference for solo masturbation (an aversion to intimate relationships with others) an orientation or a sexuality?

It's an avoidant attachment style, if it's really caused by the aversion to intimacy.

[–]GConly 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's a focus of sexuality on the self, but since the subject is heterosexual the solution is to see the self as s woman.

If I recall this is the standard explanation.

I feel this doesn't explain why AGP groups with other paraphilias though. I feel it's symptomatic of an overall sexual targeting error.

[–]one1won 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I personally don't have a problem with describing AGP as a sexual orientation

Um. About Biden Administration’s Equality Act, proposing to replace, in law, the word sex with gender identity and sexual orientation, et al

So, if AGP may, or may not, be admitted as being in “gender identity” but if it is considered a “sexual orientation”, the Acts definition of sexual orientation could be amended to include...

To whom are legislators and power brokers listening? The LGBTQ activist orgs, persons in the TQ community, and TQ allied “experts” in professional fields. Is “AGP is a sexual orientation” rhetoric being normalized in the TQ community? IF it is, it would be with this AGP inclusion intent in mind.

[–]jjdub7Gay Male Guest Commentator 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

This is a really great point, in that it further underscores the need for the bill to refer to explicitly-codified categories of heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual to further entrench the concept and reality of biological sex into law while avoiding the type of trojan-horse loopholes that could be exploited, in the worst-case scenario, to provide criminal indemnity for acts of child sexual abuse via the pedophilia-as-an-orientation narrative.

[–]one1won 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The Equality Act currently states

“(5) SEXUAL ORIENTATION.—The term ‘sexual orientation’ means homosexuality, heterosexuality, or bisexuality.

For Now. Yes, I agree, if there would be Any good faith by the promoters of the Act, they would make or agree to protections such as you mention. Make it explicitly biological/sexual and bar fetishisms as we currently know them.

My fear is with public acceptance of AGP individuals as “Trans” (used to seeing them), combined with an official professional standard stating AGP as a sexual orientation, we’d be on that slippery slope of “but they were born that way/can’t help themselves” legal “recognition”. And pedophilia could piggyback. It would be open season on women and children.

[–]jjdub7Gay Male Guest Commentator 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

AGP individuals as “Trans”

Yes, yes! This really encompasses the whole "truscum vs tucute" dogmatic spat, i.e. that "transgender" was created as an umbrella term to sneak in perverts through the trojan horse of medicalized gender dysphoria/identity disorder.

The best solution may actually to side with the transmedicalists in simply insisting on the old paradigm - the epistemology of "transsexualism" medical disorder that is clearly-definable by a diagnosis of prolonged gender identity disorder.

That's the one strategy with a near-guaranteed outcome of halting the insanity - by codifying things in law with a scientific basis and essentially locking the discourse there.

[–]one1won 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I’m a hardliner, myself, but such a course might also put the kibosh on self ID/gender fluid BS, yes. Might. Sigh. Still doesn’t address institutional capture or the “orientation” classification question or sex stereotypes (Equality Act definition of sex is also sex stereotypes, ffs!). Couldn’t sex stereotypes be used against homosexuals just as well as against women? So mightn’t help enough.

[–]jjdub7Gay Male Guest Commentator 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Couldn’t sex stereotypes be used against homosexuals just as well as against women?

Yep, that was the basis of last years' SCOTUS employment rulings with respect to Title VII and sex-based discrimination. One of Kavanaugh/Gorsuch's breakout moments.

[–]slushpilot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Subscribed, looking forward to more. Good luck to you.