"Women can have autogynephilia too"

submitted by Wangchuck from (self.GenderCritical)

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[–]FlippyKing 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Why make the "even if true" concession without any solid evidence? What study shows that it is the case? There is no way the trans activists want to get into those details. First off, I remember being told AGP does not exist. Admitting it exists is the first step to see how it is EVERYWHERE in trans circles and how indulging it instead of confronting and dealing with it is ruining everything. There is no way team T wants to open up that can of worms. What studies show women have it, and if they do how valid are the studies? How well are the results reproduced by other researchers? I could imagine a self-reporting survey with no real control over who is responding and what sex they are, that a bunch of creeps claiming to be women will be AGP. I feel like that is a real stretch of the definition to say women 'could' have it if you do nothing more than translate the latin components of the word into English. There's none of the fantasizing about genitals that dudes with AGP are engaged in.

[–]lefterfield 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I believe it was one "study"(a survey handed out to a few women at a mall) where the traditional questions to determine male autogynephilia were changed to things like "do you think about sex when wearing sexy clothes?" Nothing about whether they were attracted to themselves - and even if they were, there's a difference between thinking YOUR body is attractive and thinking you'd be attractive if you had someone else's body. It's just not possible for women to have autogynephilia, there's no way to compare the male experience of it. They could have autoandrophilia, but there's very few studies of this that I've heard of.

[–]GConly 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I believe it was one "study"

Paper by Moser.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19591032/

Debunked by Ann Lawrence, a transwoman with AGP. The debunk is called "Something resembling autogynephillia".

Lawrence did a pretty thorough hatchet job on the BS in Moser's paper.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00918360903445749?journalCode=wjhm20

The full text is on a PDF somewhere.

If you want to read up on AGP Lawrence's work on is a must.

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you!

[–]supersmokio6420 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

They could have autoandrophilia, but there's very few studies of this that I've heard of.

A lot of transmen seem to have this

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've heard that, just not of any formal studies.

[–]FlippyKing 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

A study as you described should never have been published, but there are more writers and social scientists than the world needs, and the subpar ones need places to publish their subpar rubbish. So many red flags in this. Questions that I think worth asking are: 1) since all malls have non-soliciting policies, how did they hand out the survey is an important question; 2) because people will just walk past a kiosk and some sort of tactics must be used to get people to fill out the survey, who did they successfully hand the survey to and who did they pass up when a choice was forced upon them as multiple people walked by them; 3) any given mall attracts a specific social and economic demographic in addition to the way the geographic location of the mall ensures a certain homogeneity in the people at the mall, so how does the survey correct for the reality that the survey at best reflects a self-selecting segment of that specific population; 4) how did the survey conductors define women and how did they ensure the participants conform to that definition or how did they divide up the participants according their relationship to that definition, and 5) how do the authors rationalize the use of AGP when talking about these self-selecting women and giving them different questions than the traditional ones? I can't get past how bad this survey sounds. There seems to be no compelling evidence that this concept, female AGPs, exists in reality. If they do, I wonder to what extent it only exists in women who grew up in the age of ubiquitous porn and in the culture that then must adapt to that as an increasingly dominant form of entertainment for an increasingly idle population.

(edited for spelling errors, typos, and clarity. There were too few of the first two and too much of the last)

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If they do, I wonder to what extent it only exists in women who grew up in the age of ubiquitous porn and in the culture that then must adapt to that as an increasingly dominant form of entertainment for an increasingly idle population.

It's an excellent question, I don't know. I do know that autogynophilia was a term used by Richard Blanchard(unsure if he actually coined it) specifically to describe a male phenomenon he noticed in particular men. I believe he theorized autoandrophilia may exist, but never presented evidence of it. The 'women autogynophile' claim has been passed around the trans community for as long as I can remember, but almost none of them can link to the actual study.