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[–]TheOnyxGoddess 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I wish I can be like Bayonetta. She's not simply sexy, she's being sexy as a personality with class (not trashy desperate and submissive). She has the "you can look, but you can't touch" approach to expressing herself in her behaviour and clothes and she does whatever she wants. I'm pretty sure if she's deliberately spreading her legs in her summons, it's really her teasing and getting a kick (pun not intended) out of it because she is the type of person to tease and have fun (of course, it's also to tease the player...it just occurred to me that they were probably making her break the fourth wall in one of the scenes). Compare it to Ivy Valentine from the Soul Series (I saw some of your Youtube videos, so I know you know who I'm talking about), she's just blatant eye candy who happens to be a smart educated woman. With Bayonetta, I personally think the intention is eye candy, but also to make her a fun character and that her design is not simply like that to attract the male gaze. Hell, I sometimes wonder what percentage is the creators' thought on "appealing to the male gaze" when they created her to the thought "fun, free spirited, voluptuous woman", I wonder what discussions did they have? I would be interested to know. I love both Ivy and Bayonetta. People may not consider her a feminist icon, but isn't being "feminist" about not caring whatever societal expectations place on you? It's pretty subjective, you can look at her as full on male gaze, but when I see her, I see a woman who has things I aspire for, freedom, not a care in a world, the power to tease ANYONE in any sort of way. I suspect the unfortunate thing is that people see her as solely a male gaze thing and that how she expresses herself is the game telling people "to be strong, you got to be sexy" instead of considering that her as a potential feminist icon can suggest "it's okay to be free spirited". Look at Jeanne, she dresses much more conservative, but she's still a beautiful voluptuous woman and judging by her Bayonetta 2 dialogue (tone and action), she seems as care free as Bayonetta if her dialogue about forgetting to buy caviar from the shops in the middle of a fight is anything to go by, it seems like "ugh, crap our christmas is crappier without caviar" also when she's being a jerk on a motorcycle to Enzo (that near crotch run-over thing is not cool).

Now, considering that some feminists argue that the character was borne out of male fantasy and use that as an argument of why a female character can't be a feminist icon, we should look at why these characters are created and their context of creation. These characters were generally created to appeal to the male audience to varying levels (considering companies originally marketed video games to males) but if you look closely, do you think that should automatically disqualify them from being feminist icons? Males have been designing women as one-dimensional beings (pun not intended) and over time they started giving them personalities and backstories and some of these character development projects has lead to these female characters being strong women (whilst still appealing to the male fantasy), which nonetheless still appeal to the male fantasy. From doing this, males have also humanised women and given society a source to imprint on their subconscious, women can easily over power a man. It's no different than what a woman character designer would do (although more likely she would have a bit more of a grounded reality in what a woman would behave and dress like in her society in her character designs and development).

Edit: Wording

Edit: Grammar

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Compare it to Ivy Valentine from the Soul Series (I saw some of your Youtube videos, so I know you know who I'm talking about), she's just blatant eye candy who happens to be a smart educated woman.

That's a very fair and accurate outlook. I like Ivy but in the sense that I like how in the story, she's this tragic character who's trying to free herself from her cursed blood. Her ending in SC3 always gets me. But that said, I know what she was intended for. I'm not the target demographic what with being a gay man so her design doesn't titulate me but I know that to the majority demographic, she was designed as nothing but shallow sex candy. Like they don't even give a reason why she dresses in BDSM attire whereas her alternate costumes usually have some sort of sense to them.

But I agree with you, comparing Bayonetta and Ivy, Bayonetta is not as shallow a design compared to the latter. Her design has purpose and character and despite the suggestive posing, it does feel like she is in control of herself and the whole "You can look but don't touch" is very true.

I always try to be very analytical when it comes to characters like this. It's why I said what I said about Ivy in my SC videos and mentioning what designs work and don't work for her (That Soul Calibur 4 outfit will always be one I despise lol) but with Bayonetta, I feel like she could be the embodiment of what a woman could feel like if she had unlimited power and facing the world with not a care in the world. Because Bayonetta may do some suggestive poses, it's because she knows she can and that if anyone were to mess with her, she can unleash her demonic power on them lol.

what a woman character designer would do (although more likely she would have a bit more of a grounded reality if what a woman would behave and dress like in her society in her character designs and development).

One thing that I always wanted to try asking is having women who are artists try and design what they would see as an awesome character design. I just can't think of many women in the gaming scene who are head directors who control what designs should be. I think kingdom Hearts has one? But I'm not sure. Either way, I'd like to see some women try their hand on this and then we could compare and contrast them against designs done by men.