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[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

The general question is usually whether sexuality is innate vs whether we choose it. I think it's probably more complex than that and based on many factors, including genetics. I don't believe anyone consciously chooses their sexuality. At the same time, I do believe you can learn to be more attracted to someone/some sex/some sexual activity, to some degree. When this is voluntarily chosen, as with political lesbianism - well, so long as everyone's happy with it, sure, w/e. When it's forced, that's rape and/or conversion therapy.

But yes, from a broader perspective, with whom and how we have sex is entirely chosen.

[–]SexualityCritical[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

If your claim is that, as it is, no one chooses, consciously, their sexuality, and lesbianism is a female sexuality, would this mean that political lesbianism is not real lesbianism? Glaringly, political lesbianism is conscious, the belief that women should be sexually and romantically involved with women as opposed to men, on the basis that women can never be free from patriarchy if they're involved with men on such intimate levels.

I consider myself to have consciously chosen his own sexual feelings. I chose, for a variety of ideological reasons, to be interested exclusively in men, in erotica, in romantic fiction, in my sexual fantasies, and as potential romantic partners. If it wasn't reasonable for me to do this, I wouldn't have done this. It is reason which drove me to like what I like, as I don't believe in liking something through a subjective lens, as to imply that objectivity is absent from the equation. Honestly, to claim one likes a movie, considers it good, for 'subjective reasons' is to reject reason in its entirety. The things we like, making us the things we are, indeed derive from logical sense, or, at least, an attempt at logical sense. If there were just some gene in me that made me exclusively like guys - which couldn't be the case, as I wasn't always sexually drawn to men (early childhood), and only became sexually interested as a result of environmental, social conditions - it makes I might as well not like guys, since there's nothing logical about it. In fact, if it cannot be justified by ideological means, this means that asexuality is the only path to sanity, and the sexuality I do experience is actually damaging, degrading, and harmful to my health.

Here's something to put into perspective (two things, actually). The critique of femininity which radical feminism articulates examines individual properties and phenomena tied to womanhood, but only in a socially constructed sense, possessing no real relation to the female sex, and understands these constructs to be extremely negative, impacting women and girls in the worst of manners. From an objective point of view - not adhering to the nonsense of 'it's empowering to individual women' - there can be claimed that a certain product or phenomenon is of an objectively poor quality, and should, thus, be rejected. For instance, high heels are terribly uncomfortably, and aren't suited for human feet, and are extremely hard to walk in. They can't be ran in, and they hurt one's feet after lengthy periods of wearing them. They were originally invented by men for men, because men wanted to look taller (male biological trait). Realising they were painful and inconvenient, men decided to push them onto the female sex, because it was a means for a husband to control his wife's footing (implying a power imbalance). When individual women say, 'High heels empower me,' this just means they're incorrect about a certain gendered property, not that such shoes are inherently empowering, since they're obviously not. Like criticising a bad film, criticising properties falling under the umbrella that is femininity is nothing except a testification to objective correctness. High heels are bad because high heels are bad. Bad both for women and men. Something is bad for someone even if they claim it's good for them.

Sexuality, if it's viewed as anything except a choice, is very similar to the un-feminist upholding of femininity. It is to separate sexual desire and sexual expression from objectivity, reason, and political ways to life. For a woman to be with a man on a sexual and/or romantic level, it is to be with someone who holds different sexual class interests, who's very likely to be incompatible with her autonomy and individualism. She can like whatever type of erotica she wants. But by doing so, she shouldn't deny it's a choice. It's formed based upon her own personal beliefs.

Take what TRAs say about gender and neurology. They peddle the pseudo-scientific notion of female and male brains (which don't exist), and use this myth to attempt to justify self-identification. However, even if women's and men's brains were wired differently, and it's not even that in actuality, this would merely imply a predisposition to gendered behaviour, but not an guaranteed execution of it. For instance, a woman with a 'male brain' may not perform 'male behaviour' at all, and might adopt femininity fully. What's being stated is not the execution of the abandonment of femininity, but rather merely being more likely to reject femininity than other women. So, it's meaningless, worthless. A woman, in this hypothetical situation, is literally no different from other women. Ultimately, when TRAs claim that supposed brain differences prove the existence of trans-identified people as valid, that there exits some science to it, they're just claiming that someone is female or male based solely upon sex stereotypes, which is a form of misogyny. They are claiming that one's predisposition to perform, or not perform, femininity makes one female or male. But, it's not only misogynistic, but also really unintellectual. It's like saying someone who smokes an immense quantity of cigarettes has cancer, even when they don't have cancer. Do they have a predisposition toward contracting cancer, due to their smoking habits? Definitely. But, they don't actually have cancer. A predisposition is obviously different from an actuality.

If someone were to possess a gene, or a bunch of genes, which contribute to sexuality - which don't exist, but exist here hypothetically for the sake of the explanation - this would mean they have a predisposition to being gay, or bisexual, or straight. It doesn't mean they actually are any of such things inherently, as no desire or behaviour, which is sexual, has been expressed. It can be expressed, but it doesn't have to, since such expressions are a choice individuals make, or don't make. No one has to masturbate, no one has to have sexual fantasies, no one has to read/watch erotica, or write/draw erotica, or have sexual intercourse with anyone of any biological sex. Someone possessing such supposed genes doesn't have to participate in any of this stuff, at all, in any time of their existence. Are they, however, still gay, or bisexual, or gay? This is strange. Someone could not possess any such genes, and still decide to masturbate to a certain sex, fantasise about being with that sex erotically, have sex with only one sex, and read/watch erotica featuring only one sex, and write/draw erotica featuring, again, the same sex.

So, tell me again, how is sexuality not a choice? And not just a choice, any old choice, but a beautiful choice at that?

Anyway, I really appreciate your input. I want to let everyone know, I want the absolute best for all lesbians and gay men. If you know something's good for you, then peruse and enjoy it. But, let it always be based upon reason. Don't follow what others are doing just because they're doing it in mass quantities. After all, this is a gender abolitionist community. As it's anti-conformity as it can get. I just want to let people know, they have the choice to be who they want to be. I can't stand the thought of someone telling another that one can't be a lesbian or a gay man because they don't possess genes which apparently exist. Sadly, when Sheila Jeffreys put forth the reality, in feminist theory, that sexuality was socially constructed, she was accused of claiming that straight women could be lesbians. A political lesbian is a lesbian. Sheila Jeffreys was right. A lesbian is nothing except political. If she really hated herself, she'd be heterosexual.

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

would this mean that political lesbianism is not real lesbianism?

I think that if two women are in a loving, sexual relationship, they are lesbians. Real or fake does not factor into it, and you may be overthinking this.

which couldn't be the case, as I wasn't always sexually drawn to men

Not true. Some genetic predispositions are activated at puberty. If you had a predisposition to be attracted to men, there's no reason it would feel anything except natural, whenever or however it happened.

I can't stand the thought of someone telling another that one can't be a lesbian or a gay man because they don't possess genes which apparently exist.

This is ridiculous, and not related to what I said. I don't believe that sexual attraction is chosen, consciously. This does not mean that someone cannot choose with whom or how they have sex, for whatever reason. I can't see into someone's heart or mind, and I don't care to. I posited one theory about where sexual attraction stems from. I have no way of knowing if a gay man or lesbian or heterosexual has any particular genes or what their sexual motivations are - and I don't care. People can choose any way they want to express or not express their sexuality.

I don't understand what your argument is, you seem to be throwing out a lot of different ideas, many of which are not related. My own view is nowhere near as rigid as yours, so I don't know what you're reaching for here.

[–]usehername 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think that if two women are in a loving, sexual relationship, they are lesbians.

A lesbian is a female homosexual. If two women are in a relationship, and one or both women are bisexual, they aren't lesbians. A woman can't be in a loving, sexual relationship with another woman unless she is bi or homosexual. Words have definitions.

[–]SexualityCritical[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

What genetic predispositions in question? The only way someone can be sexually attracted to someone or something legitimately, is if they admire something/someone from a (socially constructed) sexual perspective. Anyone can have such perspectives, as they relate to individual beliefs people hold.

I like guys because I relate to guys the best, since most of my friends were guys, and I was socialised in the male image. That socialisation is, of course, problematic, just as femininity is, but, ultimately, my reason for liking men sexually is because men have the same perception of sexual desire as other men, as opposed to the conflict of the male gaze meeting the female gaze.

You yourself said that if two women are in a romantic/sexual relationship with one another, they are lesbians. They can choose this path in their life because they can understand that members of the female sex cooperate better with one another, as opposed to with men.