How do "Transwomen" have Male Privilege?

submitted by Kai_Decadence from (self.GenderCritical)

I really wanna learn about this because I want to be better educated when it comes to this aspect that people don't understand. I'm a guy and though I may be feminine which can lead to some unfortunate treatment sometimes, I know that ultimately I still have male privilege but I just can't think of the proper ones I have but more importantly, what Trans-Identified men have. I know that part of it is how they're getting their way by bulldozing over women's rights and not having shame in doing it which pertains to the ego and narcissistic nature of it but I wanted to know other ways.

I just wanna learn and be more aware of the privileges and be more mindful of them.

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[–]WildwoodFlower 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If a transwoman changes into a suit and tie (or a sweatshirt and jeans), washes off her makeup, and takes off her wig, then the world will treat her the same as any man. If a transwoman came out as an adult, chances are she is still making more $$$ than her female co-workers. Her childhood and adolescence would have been completely different from what non-trans girls experience. Even transgirls who come out at a young age don't have the same childhood experiences as non-trans girls. Transkids are treated like transkids, not like typical boys or girls.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Right okay, all makes sense.

[–]WildApples 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Trans issues currentlly trumping all other civil rights issues, which I believe is the case precisely because it allows the most privileged members of society (i.e. men, especially white and straight) to center themselves in the civil rights arena.

Claiming to want to be treated like women but then getting to opt out of being held to harsh feminine beauty standards by claiming such standards are transphobic.

Getting away with threats of violence on Twitter while women get banned and sometimes even terminated from their jobs for expressing non-threatening opinions about gender.

Their pain and discomfort being prioritized over women's so that women are forced to stop talking about our own identities and experiences to avoid triggering them. But if we say we don't like being called "cis" or the ways that some TWs are reinforcing sexually objectifying and degrading stereotypes about women, no one cares about our discomfort.

Violence against trans being taken more seriously than violence against women even though women experience a higher rate of violence. Society choosing to place TWs in women's spaces to avoid violence to them while comepletely ignoring the resultant risks of violence to women.

That society thinks that a TW's need for validation is more important than a female rape or domestic violence victim's need to avoid being retraumatized.

TWs getting to claim insight into women's experience despite not having any such experience, and then having objective scientific, medical, and social definitions and norms changed based on their supposed insights. Meanwhile, women have often had to fight (and are still fighting) to get official recognition of our experiences.

TWs getting to be super aggressive and even violent and not having it held against them.

Having a physical advantage in sport and getting to exploit that advantage to take women's spots and awards. TWs getting heralded as champions when their performance is just mediocre by biological standards, which is a privilege no woman will gets to experience.

In male-dominated tech spaces like Reddit, automatically fitting into the boys' club culture because they were conditioned as males.

TW getting to flaunt their sexual proclivities publicly and not have it held against them in politics or employment the way women do.

TWs feeling proud and validated at being sexually harassed in contrast to the fear and shame that women often feel at being harassed, presumably because they have the privilege of not having to live in fear of male violence all their lives like we do.

TW not being socialized like many women have been and continuing to behave in a traditionally masculine manner (dominating conversation, expecting women to emotionally prop them up, not doing their share of housework, etc.).

I could probably go on, but generally they continue to have very privileged, male expectations of being prioritized and centered in interactions, and those expectations are routinely fulfilled in way that few women ever get to experience.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thank you so much for this, it really does paint the picture and puts it all out on the table. I nodded as I read through this because I've seen all these examples you listed and how it does trace back to male socialization and how they're using that to exploit women. I just have one thing to ask.

TWs feeling proud and validated at being sexually harassed in contrast to the fear and shame that women often feel at being harassed, presumably because they have the privilege of not having to live in fear of male violence all their lives like we do.

This one is one of the first things I've witnessed when it came to peaking me. I noticed how so many TIMs loved to be catcalled or sexually harassed or sexually degraded whereas women didn't like this at all. I won't say all women but I mean majority and then the TIM and other men couldn't understand why women don't like that kind of attention. To them it's some sort of sex thing but to women, it's fear and that's something that they couldn't grasp.

TW getting to flaunt their sexual proclivities publicly and not have it held against them in politics or employment the way women do.

Do you think that if it came out that someone like Caitlin Jenner had all this AGP related material in his belongings, do you think people would see him differently or hold it against him if he were running for Governor? I know he's running right now but say it got slipped of his AGP fetish to the public, do you think it would tarnish his chances of winning?

[–]YourSister 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

do you think it would tarnish his chances of winning?

Unless the tide turns rapidly, no I do not. They don't care that just before his "transition", he killed a woman in an accident, which has been mostly swept under the Caitlyn rug.

The constituents will chant "TWAW!", and that his behavior was because Caitlyn is a poor TIM, and <insert whatever logic twist they are using to excuse men's disgusting fetish behavior once again>. Probably something about him being so oppressed at winning a gold medal, in a penis-only sport, when he was always a woman, made him act out. Or he'll blame his wives or daughters. The AGs follow such a pattern.

[–]TeaAndCigarettes 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I play online games. There is a trans female in my guild. No one knew they were trans for a long time because they always used female pronouns. They are a very skilled player. Upon learning they were a biological male all the rest of the males went "Oh that makes sense. She's so good." Implying biological women are inherently less skilled.

Literally a real life example. But this goes for any field, especially stem where men can replace women with "transwomen" and eventually women's inclusion and voices are drowned out and the representation is overwhemingly male. Sexism is still rampant and will never be unlearned because we can just replace "woman" with "transwoman" and start calling women "birthing person" and it's woke now.

Transwomen were also raised in a patriarchal culture that has catered to them their whole lives and upon transitioning to female they DO NOT lose this entitlement. Hence why they try to occupy every female space and are trying to destroy sex based rights women paid for in blood.

[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Please don't call a trans-identified male a "trans female." There is nothing female about them. A "trans female" is a "transboy" or "transman." The TRAs have already made huge headway stealing the words girl & woman and destroying their meaning. Let's not help them do it to female as well.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I play online games. There is a trans female in my guild. No one knew they were trans for a long time because they always used female pronouns. They are a very skilled player. Upon learning they were a biological male all the rest of the males went "Oh that makes sense. She's so good." Implying biological women are inherently less skilled.

You wanna know the messed up thing I used to think back then was that as a gamer myself, whenever I came across a TIM who I didn't know right away was who was actually good at a game (mainly fighting games since that's what I mostly involved in at the time), when I was starting to become more Gender Critical and took notice of how so many TIMs were in the gamer sphere, I started to think that any person I came across who I thought was a woman who was so obsessed with a game in the competitive sense who was claiming to be a woman, I used to think they were just TIMs because I hadn't met any women who were interested in video games in such a overly detailed way when it came to the game's mechanics and trying to perfect their skill. Obviously I know better now but that's something I did go through a few years ago.

Literally a real life example. But this goes for any field, especially stem where men can replace women with "transwomen" and eventually women's inclusion and voices are drowned out and the representation is overwhemingly male. Sexism is still rampant and will never be unlearned because we can just replace "woman" with "transwoman" and start calling women "birthing person" and it's woke now.

Right like what's happening in Silicon Valley where it has a crap ton of TIMs and how they were using that to show that stem was not sexist towards women because they have "woMEN" working for the companies. Yeah, it's pretty disturbing.

Transwomen were also raised in a patriarchal culture that has catered to them their whole lives and upon transitioning to female they DO NOT lose this entitlement. Hence why they try to occupy every female space and are trying to destroy sex based rights women paid for in blood.

Right, their want to control everything is the privilege that goes back to socialization where they were taught to put themselves first to be seen as strong and independent while girls are taught to put others before them and be more passive and non-confrontational. And the TIMs take advantage of that socialization and use it to bulldoze over women.

[–]YourSister 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Right like what's happening in Silicon Valley where it has a crap ton of TIMs and how they were using that to show that stem was not sexist towards women because they have "woMEN" working for the companies. Yeah, it's pretty disturbing.

This is also branching out in STEM. Happened to me. 3 dudes "transitioned", and I, the only actual woman, had to deal with this shit, as well as being expected to help them "woman" properly.

No, Lily LaRue (dead name= Dave Brown *pseudonym), I don't find it difficult to code while menstruating, and I am not sure how to respond to your claims that "we gals have to help each other out". And, no, most 30 something professional women do not wear miniskirts and knee socks, with glitter eyeshadow, to the office.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The shit? Did he get his makeup and clothing ideas from a 20 year old Delia's catalog?

[–]TheOnyxGoddess 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, Lily LaRue (dead name= Dave Brown *pseudonym), I don't find it difficult to code while menstruating

They don't understand that it's not menstruation itself that is the issue, it's the problems which occur because of the menstruation period (e.g. discomfort, pain), they're fantasizing women's weaknesses. Back during my day, boys fantasised saving "the damsel in distress", now it's fantasising "being the damsel in distress".

[–]Tarlatan 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Examples from life:

A TiM joined a women's political activism group I belong to and eight days later put himself up for the top leadership position and instructed us all repeatedly at length that anyone not voting for him was the worst kind of bigot and would be outed accordingly.

A coworker came out as TiM and two months later was found to have taken a hidden body cam into the gym locker room to record our changing and showering; he faced no repercussions because he said he did it to learn how to fit in better and was deeply stressed by bigotry and hatred at every turn. The following year, he was caught doing it again and this time it led to a criminal investigation that found hundreds of vids and stills taken in that locker room, another gym's locker room, restrooms, and store changing rooms. He was sent for eight weeks of counseling and is seeking to have the case sealed because it was transphobic persecution of a brave and stunning artist collecting reference photographs.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A TiM joined a women's political activism group I belong to and eight days later put himself up for the top leadership position and instructed us all repeatedly at length that anyone not voting for him was the worst kind of bigot and would be outed accordingly.

That's insane. Is he the only TIM in this activism group? Did anyone try to stop him??? I know this is part of the privilege aspect that he felt he had to nerve to bully the members in the group which appeals to the male ego but I'm just curious if anyone tried to oppose him.

A coworker came out as TiM and two months later was found to have taken a hidden body cam into the gym locker room to record our changing and showering; he faced no repercussions because he said he did it to learn how to fit in better and was deeply stressed by bigotry and hatred at every turn. The following year, he was caught doing it again and this time it led to a criminal investigation that found hundreds of vids and stills taken in that locker room, another gym's locker room, restrooms, and store changing rooms. He was sent for eight weeks of counseling and is seeking to have the case sealed because it was transphobic persecution of a brave and stunning artist collecting reference photographs.

That is so messed up. So to unpack this, the male privilege came from him getting away with invading women's privacy and the higher ups refusing to punish him for it because of his asinine sap story that really was just about perving on women in their vulnerable states without their knowledge. And these men use "transphobia" to get themselves out of legal repercussions.

[–]Poppy29252 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The same way all men do because they are men.

[–]MinisterOfTerfery 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It all comes down to the fact that people do not see trans women as actual women, they see them as men. Even the most vocal TWAW folks do not see them as women. Our eyes are trained to see males as men and females as women since we are like 2 years old and it cannot suddenly be programmed to see a male as a woman.

And because of this, people will treat tw as men, like Poppy29252 said, they will have all the male privilege that other males have.

They will most likely be paid more than a woman doing the same job on the basis of being male.

They will be listened to more than a woman on the basis of being male. (ever heard of a woman getting her idea dismissed at work, but a man repeating the same idea will be told it's a great idea. most women have an experience like this)

They will be treated with more respect.

Their feelings will get prioritized over women's. Think about all the times you've heard TRAs scream "trans women are women" and how many times have you heard them say "trans men are men" and advocate for tw in women's spaces while completely ignoring tm? It's because tw are male.

Etc. etc.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And because of this, people will treat tw as men, like Poppy29252 said, they will have all the male privilege that other males have.

And this male privilege is these TIMs getting away with things because they can just cry "Transphobia" to try and shame people if they fall out of line or not in their favor.

They will be listened to more than a woman on the basis of being male. (ever heard of a woman getting her idea dismissed at work, but a man repeating the same idea will be told it's a great idea. most women have an experience like this)

I haven't seen this at my current place of work but I've heard stories of this, yes.

They will be treated with more respect.

Them not facing repercussion or disapproval when they barge into women's spaces and aren't stopped = The Male Privilege

Their feelings will get prioritized over women's. Think about all the times you've heard TRAs scream "trans women are women" and how many times have you heard them say "trans men are men" and advocate for tw in women's spaces while completely ignoring tm? It's because tw are male.

Right, yeah I hardly ever hear them say "Transmen are men" nor advocate for them neither, the male privilege.

Right okay, this all makes sense, thanks for explaining.

[–]purrvana 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They're stronger and bigger physically.

They also don't have to take time off from work to gestate or breastfeed a baby (which contributes to discrimination when being hired and contributes to the wage gap - many women get paid less simply because they make the decision to take more time off for their babies).

They can put off having children until they're in their 60s or 70s, whereas women have a biological clock and have to make sacrifices during their childbearing years if they want a career or vice versa (i.e. making career sacrifices to have children).

[–]WildApples 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You reminded to add this:

All my life I received the message that I had to suck it up during my period and maintain my productivity and performance all month long even though a small part of the month I often was not feeling up to par. I was conditioned to show that I was no different than a man and therefore not inferior, a pressure TW have never experienced. Where I tried to minimize and hide the effect my cycle had on my emotions to avoid feeding into sexist stereotypes of women as irrational, TW seem to enjoy reinforcing those stereotypes by proudly declaring how emotional hormones made them. They never had to contend as men with people dismissing their thoughts and feelings by suggesting they are just hormonal and likely still do not as TW.

So it does not seem like a coincidence to me that once men started claiming to actually be women and to experience menstruation and once TRAs started advocating that menstruation is something experienced by men as well as women, politicians started to introduce the idea of menstrual leave from work. It was okay for just women to suffer all this time, but only now that it could benefit men is menstrual leave being openly considered.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They also don't have to take time off from work to gestate or breastfeed a baby (which contributes to discrimination when being hired and contributes to the wage gap - many women get paid less simply because they make the decision to take more time off for their babies).

Now this one is very blatant. Yeah. Since men don't have to go through birthing, they can work as much as they want without taking time off work unlike the woman who has to take time off which in turn cuts into her work time and the wage gap. And then when they take the time off, it creates the time gap in employment that some employers will use against her and it just continues to contribute the vicious cycle that is the wage gap.

[–]MarkTwainiac 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You wanna see male privilege? Look into the life stories of prominent "transwomen" who went trans in the 1970s: James Jan Morris and Richard Raskin Renee Richards.

For more male privilege, look at the life stories and vaunted positions of Martine Rothblatt, Jennifer Pritzker, Jennifer Finney Boylan, Grace Lavery, Rachel Levine, Charlotte Clymer, Debbie Hayton, Mrdul Wadha, Robin Moira White, Victoria McCloud...

The "highest paid woman in American business" since 2014 is a TIM. The youngest Queen's Bench Master in the UK High Court in history is a TIM. The person hailed as "the world's greatest athlete" of the 1970s is a TIM. The "first British woman ever to serve in combat" is a TIM. The "first woman commercial airline captain" is a TIM. The recipients of the US state of Connecticut's "Courage Award" are two TIMs, and they got that award for competing in girls' HS track and trouncing all the females. A 43 year-old TIM from New Zealand will be competing as a woman in the upcoming Olympics...

How on earth can you not see all the male privilege in all these TIMs and the male dominance behavior they openly and constantly display?

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The "highest paid woman in American business" since 2014 is a TIM. The youngest Queen's Bench Master in the UK High Court in history is a TIM. The person hailed as "the world's greatest athlete" of the 1970s is a TIM. The "first British woman ever to serve in combat" is a TIM. The "first woman commercial airline captain" is a TIM. The recipients of the US state of Connecticut's "Courage Award" are two TIMs, and they got that award for competing in girls' HS track and trouncing all the females. A 43 year-old TIM from New Zealand will be competing as a woman in the upcoming Olympics...

I didn't know any of this except for the World's Greatest Athlete. But this is all is insane. So essentially all the "women" who found success outside of the entertainment industry are TIMs and therein is one of the examples of male privilege because women have a hard enough time trying to find success outside of the entertainment world.

How on earth can you not see all the male privilege in all these TIMs and the male dominance behavior they openly and constantly display?

I'm just trying to really dig deep into the privilege really. Because time and again you hear non-famous trans-identified men swear up and down that they don't have male privilege and I know that's not true but I'm still new to unwrapping and truly understand the concept even when it comes to men who on the surface feel like they don't have it just because they don't conform to masculinity.

I will look into the stories you mentioned.

[–]tu_jode_mucho 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

One way I've seen in my personal life: before the pandemic when my company was still in the office there was a TW coworker who would dress very provocatively in women's clothes wearing really high heels, fishnets, midriff showing, chocker, excessive makeup, etc. This person was never harassed, ogled, or reprimanded. It was pretty clear that only a male could come to work in a professional setting dressed like a street-walker and still be left in peace to their work. If that was an actual woman she would've been harassed, leered at and ogled, and very possibly asked by management or HR to change into more appropriate attire.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

But you don't understand, dressing like a street-walker validates "her" "woman" identity and... " lol I can't.

That is really dumb though that he's allowed to dress that way and not get reprimanded for it. It's clear he's dressing for his fetish.

[–]tu_jode_mucho 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yea it was super creepy. He was like 6'2ish with long greasy hair, just imagine the typical weirdo TIM on twitter in real life. There were 4 TIMs at the office and one TIF. All of the TIMs used the women's bathroom but for some reason the TIF would wait as long as she needed to use the single bathroom and never used the men's. Hmmm such mystery I wonder why that is...

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Eugh I cannot imagine. Where did you work??? That's crazy that you had 5 TIMs in one workplace setting. I'm guessing you worked for something like IT or tech related? Either way, that's terrible. And yeah it's pretty clear why the TIF didn't use the men's restroom...

[–]TheOnyxGoddess 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

He's just not sexy and the males know that's a male. The double standard they hold against women. Wear warmer clothing and have the aircon turn onto really cold and see if he still dresses like a prostitute, he should cover up like the rest of the women in a corporate workplace setting.

[–]usehername 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well for one you will likely still pass as a man easily, and women are trained to be feminine, compliant, and that their needs don't matter from birth. https://bmcpsychology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40359-016-0123-6 You, however, have likely been taught to be strong, assertive, and that you deserve respect and aren't a worthless babymaking machine. These scars on a woman's psyche will never go away.