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[–]RationalNeutral 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

As the name implies, bioidentical hormones are just that... hormones that are biologically identical to the hormones produced by the relevant sex organ. Estrogen bioidenticals, for example, were originally developed for the treatment of post-menopausal symptoms of women. TIMs offer an opportunity to study the longer-term effects of HRT treatment than post-menopause cases can offer.

Meanwhile, what evidence do you have to support the claim of heart attack symptoms being as you describe?

[–]lefterfield 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

...Are you serious right now? Hormones do not work the same in male bodies as they do in female bodies, REGARDLESS of what type of hormones they are or if you are taking them at a comparable rate. TIMs interactions with estrogen can only tell us how males respond to estrogen. It tells us NOTHING about post-menopausal women.

Site your evidence that hormones literally remake physiology, and I'll dig up some studies that say that men remain men and have male symptoms - even after taking estrogen.

[–]RationalNeutral 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Something that might be useful for your search would be cross-sex heart transplants: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heart-transplant-idUKTRE4AB7FK20081112

I would suspect that if your claim holds as much as you propose, that a cross-sex heart transplant would fail 100% of the time, but the above article is showing a 15% failure rate for men-only. Which, suggests there is something more complicated going on.

Transgender medical research MIGHT help shed light on the nuances that can decrease that kind of risk.

The article points out that Male hearts vary in size from Women's hearts, which, could be exactly influenced by sex hormones (and not genetic makeup) during puberty.

So then the question might get posed do we see the same kind of rate of failures for pre-puberty heart transplants?

That's your rabbit hole to go down though, seeing as at the moment I'm attempting to prove your point for you on the suspicion you aren't going to put in the effort.

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I'm sorry, what? That doesn't in any way contradict anything I said. No, I would find it a far more surprising result if cross-sex transplants were always a failure. A male heart is - as far as I'm aware - very similar to a female heart, just larger. Same as a male liver, or pancreas, or kidney. Separating people into individual organs doesn't answer the question of male vs female physiology.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Size is only one of the many important differences that have been found in male & female kidneys. Sex

of donor and recipient plays a larger role in kidney transplants than previously assumed. Female donor kidneys do not function as well in men -- due to their smaller size. Women have a higher risk of rejecting a male donor kidney.

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajprenal.00584.2018

Major differences have been found in other human organs too, including the heart.

Large studies have been carried out with respect to the cardiac functions among the different sexes in both animals and humans, though the studies on male predominate. There is increasing evidence that the biological sex play a significant role in cardiac functioning, as well as in the occurrence and outcome of cardiac disease. Female sex tends to have an upper hand in the heart function which is progressively lost once they attain menopause. Sex differences have been reported in left ventricular hypertrophy, cardiac remodelling with aging, arrhythmogenic activity and post-infarct myocardial salvage.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4190707/

The anatomic location of the major vessels in the heart, lung, and most organs are indistinguishable among the sexes. Similarly, the cardiovascular systems of males and females have the same formed elements circulating in the blood, the vessels are composed of the same cell types, and the union of the elements perform the same functions. Healthy men and women are in homeostasis. Consequently, it makes sense to conclude that the functions and functional responses of all of these common elements are the same in men and women, right? Well, no, not necessarily, and that is where the tale becomes interesting. The take-home message of this monograph will be that while men and women are indeed in homeostasis and they possess the same structural elements, how those components function to achieve homeostasis with respect to the cardiovascular system differs (from subtly to profoundly). The manifestation of these differences has a real outcome: how and when cardiovascular disease occurs, how disease can be prevented, and what can be done to ameliorate or treat its manifestations effectively https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/advan.00099.2006

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6298433/

https://www.cardofmich.com/men-women-heart-differences/

There are many marked differences - starting at birth - between the lung tissue, lung secretions and lung function of males and females that go way, way beyond size differences too. Male and female humans actually breathe differently! I first twigged to some of these differences decades ago because I grew up with a brother & sister who both had cystic fibrosis, which ravages the lungs - and even in the 1950s & early 1960s when CF was first being understood & described in medical literature, notable differences were observed in how the same disease from the same exact genetic flaw (Delta F-508) manifested in the two sexes even from the same parentage & household and with the same medical treatment, nutrition, level of exercise, home care, physical therapy, interventions, etc. Generally speaking girls with CF tend to get much sicker much sooner than boys, and they die younger.

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Please let the other poster know.

[–]MarkTwainiac 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

[–]RationalNeutral 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'm attempting to prove your point for you on the suspicion you aren't going to put in the effort.

I literally said that I wasn't attempting to contradict you with this comment, do you even read the comments your respond to?

A male heart is - as far as I'm aware - very similar to a female heart, just larger.

So then, in the absence of larger discrepancies, like the explicit existence or nonexistence of an organ, as a whole the biochemical response (for the administration of medicine) is going to be far more similar to the sex hormone being taken at the time, correct?

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

is going to be far more similar to the sex hormone being taken at the time, correct?

Nooooo. This is the thing you need to find evidence for. Our bodies are not just organs held together by hormones.

[–]RationalNeutral 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That would more or less require me to summarize an entire medical school curriculum in a saidit comment, for that level of explanation you would be better off taking formal courses.

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Lol. Get your head out of your ass - though check for prostate cancer before you do - and come back with an actual argument. Actually no, just leave.

[–]RationalNeutral 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I provided sources for you to do your own research, it's up to you to actually do that research though.