Other places to discuss unwokeness?

submitted by JMAlarin1290 from self.GenderCritical

Hey everyone! I was wondering if anyone knew of other places to discuss what some people might call "unwoke" topics? I work in a super "woke" English department at my university and regularly encounter "woke" perspectives on not just sex or gender but also race and capitalism and so on and so forth. You hear such nonsense as "Grammatical power structures are 100% based in white supremacy" (That is literally something I copied and pasted from a class chat). Anyway are there any sites or circles where I can talk with people without encountering things like this?

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[–]our_team_is_winning 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like I'm part of some small underground resistance, whispering in dark alleys. "Psst. Are you woke? I said are you woke?" and one of us takes a chance and says, "there are two sexes." Both people heave a sigh of relief, yet still look around in all directions fearing attack at any moment. We're like Winston Smith trying to find that one tiny spot where the Telescreen can't watch us.

[–]BEB 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Have you heard of the Intellectual Dark Web? From my understanding, it's liberal-type people - liberal in the classic sense - with some conservatives mixed in, now questioning Wokeness.

Not sure which of these "Intellectual Dark Web"-type media outlets have comment sections but some do: Quillette , UnHerd.com, https://uncommongroundmedia.com

Twitter - start with

James Lindsay https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames

Colin Wright https://twitter.com/SwipeWright

You can see which of their followers you like.

[–]jjdub7Gay Male Guest Commentator 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

also Dave Rubin, if we're counting those who "self-ID" as IDW :)

Currently reading Helen Pluckrose and James Lindsay's Cynical Theories. Still in the 'literature review' early sections of the book, wondering whether they'll address sex-based oppression as legit or downplay it.

[–]BEB 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I saw Dave Rubin on Fox News last year (I was taking care of elderly relatives) saying something along the lines of Americans needed to gather with their families for Thanksgiving or fascism wins (I'm exaggerating), so will probably never listen to him without a healthy dose of skepticism.

However, that's the way I feel about everyone.

Pluckrose and Lindsay do address sex-based oppression, although I don't know if they do in that book. However, Lindsay, who can be really nuts on Twitter, seems to me to actually be more sensitive to women's plights.

Pluckrose seems to be having a running battle with GC feminists, and even though she seems to get sex-based oppression, she seems to think she's above it. Arrogant, IMO.

[–]jjdub7Gay Male Guest Commentator 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I know Helen is more the "media" arm of their anti-grievance movement with her work at Areo, IIRC editing New Discourses, and she spearheaded the publication of the Sokal2 papers.

James seems to function more as the layman's ambassador/evangelist to try and awake-pill the sleeping normie masses to the mental prion disease that is post-modernism.

Dave...well I've got a soft spot for Dave 🤤

[–]jjdub7Gay Male Guest Commentator 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In descending order of likely social acceptability:

= (as mentioned by u/BEB) IDW and The Daily Wire (now with Candace Owens!!) on Youtube

= smattering of (mostly male-dominated) holdout subs on Reddit, including

  • r/KotakuInAction2 ("GamerGate" sub focused on ethics in journalism, anti-TRA, largely smeared as misogynistic);

  • r/SocialJusticeInAction (meme-tier);

  • r/TumblrInAction (meme-tier);

  • r/StupidPol (anti-IDpol leftist sub)

= Victory Network:

  • https://patriots.win (formerly thedonald.win, sanctuary site following exodus from r/The_Donald),

  • kotakuinaction2.win (Reddit-free version of the above sub)

et al. .win sites, accessible by links therein

= 4chan's /pol/ (just don't)

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

race and capitalism

Check out /s/debatealtright

[–]our_team_is_winning 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I went over there on your advice and subscribed just to check it out (how do you unsubscribe to groups?)

I found this image that maybe sums up the forum!

https://imgur.com/76SzQBv

[–]our_team_is_winning 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This Benjamin Boyce interview with Aaron Kindsvatter seems to be a good match for what you're dealing with.

https://youtu.be/yvCH_KgHP4k

[–]slushpilot 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I would actually recommend a lot of Benjamin's interview videos. I've seen him interview other educators as well, so maybe u/JMAlarin1290 might be interested in reaching out. We always need more people talking about these questions openly.

[–]WildApples 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Quillette Circle: https://forum.quillette.com/

[–]kwallio 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

There is also the intellectual dark web subreddit, r/intellectualdarkweb. Also the blocked and reported subreddit, r/blockedandreported

https://www.reddit.com/r/IntellectualDarkWeb

https://www.reddit.com/r/BlockedAndReported/

[–]BEB 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

FYI: Blocked and Reported podcast hosts, Jesse Singal & Katie Herzog, although under career-destroying attacks by rabid trans activists, are busy needling any GC people they can irritate.

[–]kwallio 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Yeah thats true. I find the sub to be a good place for discussion tho. IDG why they are attacking Linehan tho.

[–]BEB 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I have read their twitters for a few years and listened to their podcast a few times. At first, I liked both of them, but now I think Jesse is a wimp, throwing GCers under the bus in fear of the Trans Army.

I think that Katie is just a contrarian. If GC feminists said the sky is blue she'd disagree and then a few days later tweet something like, "How could anyone say the sky isn't blue?"

I continue to track them to see if they'll evolve on the gender ideology issue, and they also seem to get into really vicious and entertaining twitter wars, plus Katie can be very funny.

Yeah, no idea why Katie is comparing Linehan to deranged TiMs. But maybe she can't understand Linehan's passion because she herself doesn't have any?

[–]kwallio 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't actually listen to the podcast but I follow both of them on twitter and read Singal's substack.

I think that Katie is just a contrarian

This is mostly the reason that I have zero respect for Paglia. She will say literally anything just to be "contrary". eta - Paglia isn't relevant to this discussion but she annoys me so much

[–]BEB 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Just saw this tweet and thought you'd appreciate it (I'm guessing the tweeter is talking about Linehan)

"Imagine you're a pair of journalists, called, oh, Bessie Bingal and Kitty Werner Herzog. Let's say you're in week 2 of trashing a guy, much to the chagrin of a number of people who support your work by giving you money.

At what point do you call him for an interview?"

https://twitter.com/megawhelmed/status/1376498512561594371

[–]kwallio 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

OK that made me laugh out loud. Like all 3 of them more or less have the same 'beat', why so aggro.

[–]BEB 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Linehan responds to the Herzog/ Singal criticism - sound like they are being awful to him.

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/check-out-how-much-effort-it-takes/comments

[–]hfxB0oyA 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://www.thinkspot.com/