Request to reinstate r/GenderCritical on Reddit

submitted by yipopov from (old.reddit.com)

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[–]NeedMoreCoffee 21 insightful - 3 fun21 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 3 fun -  (21 children)

You fucked up big time by calling trans people troons

Now they can all go "see its transphobic". You should have been diplomatic about it and now this and any future attempt will be fucked. Congrats.

[–]odius 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Please. It doesn't matter how polite or diplomatic you are. The moment you speak out against the transgender orthodoxy you get called transphobic.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 15 insightful - 3 fun15 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 3 fun -  (12 children)

This wasn't about speaking out against transgender orthodoxy this was about unbanning a subreddit. All they had to do was just ask like a normal person without resorting to slurs and making it easy for the mods to reject it FFS

[–]absoluteblasphemy 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

This is true, it is bad optics, we need to be on our best behaviour. Which is very frustrating, yes, but it doesn’t change the fact that we can’t allow the GC position to be dismissed as mere bigotry when I think majority here are mostly just concerned about the women and children being eaten by the trans machine.

Which is going at 200 miles an hour, affirmation only, hugboxing, with serious irreversible medical procedures abound. Idk just in case a trans ID’d person sees this and thinks it’s ironic, it’s not, these concerns are legitimate.

[–]odius 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

"Best behavior" will get you nowhere. They call you a bigot no matter what. How many people here have gotten called a bigot for simply asking questions? Who here didn't know what a "terf" was until they got called one? FFS, these are people who call people like RuPaul, Buck Angel or Dan Savage bigots. Dan Savage in particular has spent the better part of the last 20 years kowtowing to the trans community and trying to prove how "not transphobic" he is, for columns he wrote and apologized for decades ago. Where has that gotten him?

Conflating "the gc position" with bigotry isn't something they do because of the words we use, it's how they silence us. And if our response is to quiet down and follow their (arbitrary, ever changing) demands of language, all that's doing is giving in and crippling our movement.

[–]absoluteblasphemy 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It’s not that I don’t see your point, but “troons” and other actual derogatory slurs directed at people help nothing. I don’t use them anywhere, not even here. So just be careful, what exactly do you think you’re defending when we here say maybe using slurs is not a great look? I don’t think that’s unreasonable, check your position.

[–]WildApples 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Conflating "the gc position" with bigotry isn't something they do because of the words we use, it's how they silence us. And if our response is to quiet down and follow their (arbitrary, ever changing) demands of language, all that's doing is giving in and crippling our movement.

I don't need the word "troon" or any other slur to express GC ideas. Ad hominems do not make arguments better, and it is not the refraining from them that is silencing me. It will be the inability to distinguish ourselves from bigots that will cripple the movement.

[–]odius 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It will be the inability to distinguish ourselves from bigots that will cripple the movement.

What makes you think they make a distinction? Shall I rattle off more names of people that have been called bigots for politely expressing criticism? Does the name JK Rowling mean anything to you?

[–]WildApples 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, because your rattling off names will do nothing to make you capable of understanding an argument, which is where the problem lies.

[–]odius 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

... a subreddit that goes against trans orthodoxy. /r/gendercritical existed for what, 7 years until it got banned? I was there since basically the start. It didn't get any more polite over that period of time- it got bigger. And when the admins banned it? They took down all the subs- big, small, jokey, serious, even the debate sub.

What do you think would have happened had that poster not used the word troon? "Oh, well you're so well mannered, I guess you can have your sub back!" The admins decided last year that there would be no critical thinking about transgender issues. The words we use won't change that.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I think it didn't help us one damn bit.

You dont ask your boss for a raise while calling him a fuckwit, eventhough he is a fuckwit. This is the same principle. You cant ask for a subreddit to be reinstated and claim its not hateful while at the same time using "troons".

It's ridiculous and utterly stupid.

You want to be pissed be pissed. But dont be that prick that goes to a silent peaceful protest and starts throwing eggs at the cops cause you got a chip on your shoulder. You just fuck it up for everyone involved.

This isn't rocket science to understand how society works.

[–]odius 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm not saying we should go around calling transgender people slurs. But if you think being polite is going to endear our ideas to them, then you don't know how the transgender community works. To them, any amount of criticism= bigotry. Saying things they don't want to hear is bigotry. /r/gendercritical banned slurs. Did that stop the admins from banning it?

[–]adabsurdum 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

you seem to be confused about who our target is. it is not the transgender community we are attempting to endear our ideas to. going around using language like this is not only a lazy, edgy masculine way of attempting to make an argument but it legitimatizes their claims against us to the observers. this is very, very basic strategy and seeing people acting this way and others defending this poor line of thinking and emotional reactivity is so disheartening.

[–]AugustiJade 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

TL was banned and we were not once rude to the trans cult.

[–]odius 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly. Rude= says things transgender people don't want to hear. There's no respectful disagreement with them.

[–]WildApples 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

It is not about coddling TRAs. We are in a PR battle and we need as much support as we can get. It we take the high road, it makes them look ridiculous when they accuse us of hate. If we sink to their level and use slurs, then the people who are on the sidelines will agree with them that we are hateful bigots. I am annoyed thinking about all the Redditors who are new to the issue and had that thread as their introduction to GC ideas. Those people will now believe that we are hateful and will not be open to hearing from us. It plays right into TRA hands, and we are the ones who lose because of it.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes exactly!

[–]odius 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Seriously? Where have you been the past ten years? You get called a bigot for saying things like "woman are adult human females," "lesbians don't like penis," "maybe transitioning five years olds isn't a good idea" and "there's a difference between cis women and trans women." People call Dan Savage a bigot when he's been kowtowing to their community the past 20 years. They call Abigail Schrier a bigot for writing a book that simply criticizes transgender ideas.

Or here, have you read JK Rowling's essay? How could she have written it in a way that wouldn't get her called hateful?

[–]WildApples 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do not disagree with you that TRA extremists will call any criticism bigoted, but that is besides the point. I and several others have clearly emphasized that our criticism is about appealing to the people who have not yet been radicalized by TRAs, and your continued refusal to acknowledge that seems willful at this point.

Why are you so invested in using slurs? Is defending the slur "troon" really the hill you want to die on?

Edited to add: Some of us foresee a day when we may have to justify to our schools, employers, or courts that we do not subscribe to gender beliefs, and when that day comes, we will need records that shows that GC viewpoints are not inherently hateful. If the arbiter looks up a GC forum to learn more about our ideas and sees "troon" and "tranny" all over the place, we will lose. And then we may be legally required IRL to use gender idioms, deny biology, and otherwise profess false gender beliefs. You desire to use slurs is ultimately cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[–]WildApples 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hard agree. Now they will be more convinced than ever that they are right about gender criticism being synonymous with hatred and bigotry.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

TRAs: "Choke on my girldick, Terf." posts multiple rape fantasies about sexually violating lesbians and women

TRAs: Those women were mean and called us troons. :(

Fuck playing their little games, including admins claiming to allow disagreements and arguments. They dont want women on there unless they're worshipping cock.

[–]Irascible-harpy 16 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Neeeever gonna happen.

[–]AugustiJade 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Those comments... "TL deserved to get banned, because they did not play to my fetishes."

No way any of our subs will be re-instated.

[–]theytookourjerbs 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

the paedos on r/against"hate"subreddits found out about this https://archive.ph/oTBPg

[–]Marigold-plate 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Archived for the comments. https://archive.is/b3fi7

[–]hfxB0oyA 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah good luck with that, mate. You're assuming these people operate on logic.

[–]anxietyaccount8 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I actually don't think this a good idea. That subreddit has always attracted a lot of negative attention, trolling, and Reddit drama. Plus, now radfems have our own website!

[–]copenseethe 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I would much prefer to see people abandon reddit. This site (Saidit) is a better substitute, anyway. Free speech is respected here.

[–]akkordeonplayer 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Reddit is cancer. Stay away from it. Don’t help them earn more revenue.