all 46 comments

[–]jjdub7Gay Male Guest Commentator 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean, misandry certainly exists, its just not something that really gets enforced on any scale beyond a 6th grade classroom, let alone on any kind of systemic level.

Denying that it exists only lessens the argument against misogyny, no?

That all being said, all "cis" people are vulnerable to trans ideology when the TRAs have the power of the federal government at their disposal. There's literally no reason to divide into factions over this fight, because to do so only weakens the natural coalition of opposition to trans ideology - we should all be protective of each other in this fight.

Don't forget, there may come a time when the rad fem movement must ultimately rely on male violence to protect itself from, well...male violence.

[–]Vulptex 3 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 6 fun -  (43 children)

Nature itself hates cis men. Biologically speaking the female is the default, and the male is a modified version of the female designed solely to help her reproduce. As such, nature doesn't really care about the male any more than what he does for women and children. Men do not have the ability to cope with stress and emotions and are explosively angry and prone to depression due to how our brain is wired, and yet we're the ones expected to be stoic and never have any problems. We have productivity issues because our body is designed to rest as much as possible for hard labor. We are usually fairly stupid. And society also doesn't care about us. A woman can often get whatever she wants on a golden platter, and if that doesn't work she can just cry about it and you're a monster if you don't give in. While a man can go die in a war or suffer the worst torture imaginable--with lower pain tolerance, mind you, both mentally and physically--and no one will give a shit; in fact, he will be punished if he doesn't suffer, without complaint. Women can get away with almost anything with no consequences, even serious crimes, or if they do get in trouble it is barely a fraction of what men get for the same thing. Often they even hold a man responsible for a woman's actions, because how could you lock up a sweet innocent woman, blame this ugly man instead! Now repeat after me, "male privilege!".

[–]MarkTwainiac 16 insightful - 5 fun16 insightful - 4 fun17 insightful - 5 fun -  (22 children)

A woman can often get whatever she wants on a golden platter, and if that doesn't work she can just cry about it and you're a monster if you don't give in. While a man can go die in a war or suffer the worst torture imaginable--with lower pain tolerance, mind you, both mentally and physically--and no one will give a shit; in fact, he will be punished if he doesn't suffer, without complaint. Women can get away with almost anything with no consequences

I suggest you look at the mass rapes and abuse of women and girls that men routinely commit in war. Look what the Japanese Imperial soldiers did to the women of Nanjing, China in WW2, and to the Korean women they forced into prostitution for the Japanese troops. Look at the mass rapes of German girls and women that Soviet troops committed at the end of WW2. For present day examples, look at the what ISIS and the Taliban have done to women in war.

Also, look into history and world events more generally.

When I was growing up in the US in the 1960s, American women had no right to legal abortion - and it was legal to fire female employees from their jobs and kick girls and women out of school for getting pregnant. Girls and women who got pregnant when they weren't married were scorned as sluts, privately and publicly shunned and sent away.

In Ireland (both the republic and NI), girls and women who got pregnant outside of marriage - or merely had the temerity to flirt with boys - were locked up and enslaved in places the workhouses known as Magadelene laundries and institutions called mother & baby homes. Those who gave birth usually had their babies taken away against their will and given to married couples for adoption. Many of the children who were not adopted out died due to malnutrition, lack of medical treatment, abuse by officials and other suspicious circumstances.

For decades, the stories of these places and the atrocities carried out in them, were largely unspoken — despite calls from the mothers who became virtual prisoners within their walls and children who spent their earliest years there, later sharing stories of neglect and abuse.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/world/europe/ireland-mother-baby-home-report.html

The Magdalene laundries remained in operation until 1984. The mother and baby homes until 1998. More than 56,000 girls and women in Ireland ranging in age from 12 to 44 were sent to these institutions for getting pregnant outside of marriage, or sometimes just for having flirted, kissed or been sexually abused by boys or men (including priests and other clergymen and their own brothers and fathers). But not a single one of the boys and men who had sex with these girls and women and fathered their children suffered any negative consequences whatsoever.

In most of the West, women only got the right to vote in national elections 100 years ago - and this right certainly was not handed to women "on a golden platter." In my own lifetime, girls and women lacked basic rights like the right to attend certain schools and study certain subjects, the right to apply for certain jobs and enter various professions, the right to get a credit card or bank loan without a male co-signer, the right to have scholastic sports, and the right to prosecute if we were beaten or raped by the men we were married to.

As for war: what many men through history have suffered physically and emotionally in warfare is horrible. But nearly all wars over the course of human history have been started and waged by men. Used to be, warfare was called delayed male infanticide - a way that older men past their prime could legally kill off young males once they reached the age when they were at their sexual and physical peak and could compete with, challenge or overthrow the older men.

With the exception of outliers like Golda Meir and Margaret Thatcher, few women have started and waged wars coz very few women have been heads of state or commanders of militaries.

Women have always done their bit in various wars in all sorts of ways both on the home front and on the front lines, including serving in combat:

https://www.history.com/news/women-wwii-military-combat-front-lines

https://www.airforcemag.com/PDF/MagazineArchive/Magazine%20Documents/2014/October%202014/1014Witches.pdf

While a man can go die in a war or suffer the worst torture imaginable--with lower pain tolerance, mind you, both mentally and physically--and no one will give a shit

I suggest you spend some time looking into what human labor and childbirth entails for women mentally and physically both as it happens and in the months and years down the line. In the poorer parts of the world today, the leading cause of death for teenage girls is pregnancy/childbirth.

[–]Vulptex 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (21 children)

And guess who was forced to endure those wars? That's right, almost exclusively men. And that's still the case. My female friends who are exactly like me have a right not to be forced into war but I have to sign up for selective service just because I have a dick.

Rape happens when mens' overactive sex drives malfunction, coupled with how testosterone destroys half the brain including almost everything emotional or empathetic. The reason men are more desperate for sex is because that is biologically their sole purpose in life. And your rape stats are certainly wrong, because when a woman rapes a man she gets away with it, and in fact HE usually gets accused of raping her!

The oppression issue stemmed from mens' jealousy of women. Not everyone, but most people, when being jealous behave selfishly and have a desire to bring the luckier person down and see them fail. However our primal instincts were still there the whole time. We still protected women, bought them gifts, and did everything for them like disposable machines. We let them actually have problems and didn't even let men shed a tear, parents even beat little boys to a pulp if they cried about anything while comforting their girls. Women have always been able to get away with more than men, and girls have always been able to get away with more than boys. And pretty much anything is socially acceptable for a woman, but men are expected to fit an extremely narrow ideal of manhood, from infancy. There used to be a lot of standards for women too, but still not even as many as men today.

I should also note, the oppression of women isn't relevant anymore, because it's been gone for over 50 years now. Unless, of course, you believe in reparations and punishing people for what their ancestors did.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

My female friends who are exactly like me have a right not to be forced into war but I have to sign up for selective service just because I have a dick.

In the US there is no draft any more. As someone who remembers when the draft still occurred in the US, I can attest that registering for selective service is not at all the same as actually being drafted - or subject to the draft lottery and rules of the 60s and 70s.

However, I agree that male-only selective service registration is sexist and unfair. I think it should either be eliminated or apply to both sexes.

the oppression of women isn't relevant anymore, because it's been gone for over 50 years now.

You really need to expand your knowledge of the world. What is the case in the US or UK is far from the universal norm.

We let them actually have problems and didn't even let men shed a tear, parents even beat little boys to a pulp if they cried about anything while comforting their girls.

I'm sorry if this was the case in the social milieu in which you grew up. It's certainly not the norm universally. In the family I grew up in, my father, grandad and uncles were by far the biggest criers. None of my many male friends were beaten to a pulp for crying. They weren't beaten, shamed or punished at all for crying. Same goes for my sons and all their friends.

Since it seems you are from the USA, I assume that you know that the most famous crying person in US politics is former US Congressman John Boehner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyxioZZdiTg

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (4 children)

You really need to expand your knowledge of the world. What is the case in the US or UK is far from the universal norm.

Okay but how is giving women who already have female privilege even more special treatment going to change what happens in other countries?

I'm sorry if this was the case in the social milieu in which you grew up. It's certainly not the norm universally. In the family I grew up in, my father, grandad and uncles were by far the biggest criers. None of my many male friends were beaten to a pulp for crying. They weren't beaten, shamed or punished at all for crying. Same goes for my sons and all their friends.

This was back in the olden days. I thankfully didn't grow up in that environment, but I still faced the threat of more minor punishments if I cried. Or didn't level up to the high standards set on me. And it still affects me, because society scolds men for showing any weakness. We're severely underdiagnosed with depression because people treat it like we're expected to deal with it, even though it's the end of the world if a woman gets it. If I cry, I am accused of being a spoiled brat and manipulating people. If a woman cries she's coddled and validated beyond reason. Because I'm a mean ugly man, and she's a gorgeous innocent female with sparkly eyes. Even social norms are like this. Women can do pretty much whatever they want no problem. But men have to fit the stereotype of man who works 9 to 5, has a wife and 2.5 kids, and is obsessed with sports and sex, and has no emotion at all, otherwise we're casted out. And it's all because women are inherently valuable just for existing, whereas men are only as valuable as what they do for women and children and working.

[–]MarkTwainiac 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

This was back in the olden days.

Wow, that's some ageism, mate. The statement I made that you quoted covered male people born in the US from the 1890s through the late 1990s.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

How the fuck is that ageist? It's a known fact that most adults were physically abusive to children until recently. And that doesn't mean they were sadists, because they faced enormous pressure to keep their kids in line and this is what they were told to do, especially to boys. That doesn't imply that they are like that just because of their age.

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

You said the experiences of the people in the USA of multi generations over more than 100 years I cited all occurred

back in the olden days.

That's ageism. You seem to think that only people of your own age/generation and very narrow experience and specific cultural milieu count and constitute the norm.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Are you saying we should take action to solve problems for a completely different time period? That doesn't make any sense.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

coupled with how testosterone destroys half the brain including almost everything emotional or empathetic.

Testosterone is actually neuroprotective.

And your rape stats are certainly wrong, because when a woman rapes a man she gets away with it, and in fact HE usually gets accused of raping her!

^^ this

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 7 fun1 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 7 fun -  (13 children)

Testosterone is actually neuroprotective.

Incorrect, that's actually estrogen that's neuroprotective. Testosterone is literally poison that kills the body, and since men are expendable our bodies make the sacrifice to become stronger so we can impress girls more. If you happen to not want to do that, too bad, your body will still spend every last resource on that and only that alone till it's the only thing you can do. Men get the rough end of the deal, the only thing women have to deal with is their uterus and less physical strength, both of which are easily treatable with modern innovations.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (11 children)

https://news.yale.edu/2006/09/26/elevated-testosterone-kills-nerve-cells

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2048656/

And testosterone kills all the other organs too. This is why women live longer, and why their hair doesn't fall out.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

If you think women's hair doesn't fall out, you are basing your entire view of women on pre-menopausal women and women in robust good health. After menopause, major hair loss is the norm for female people. Same goes for women with many health conditions.

Moreover, women don't live longer coz we have less T than men. It's coz we have XX chromosomes.

Female people are not simply males with lower T, or with male bodies that "boobs and tubes" have been added to as you seem to think.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Female people are not simply males with lower T, or with male bodies that "boobs and tubes" have been added to as you seem to think.

They do both develop initially as neuter, and the male reproductive system and the female reproductive system are almost entirely homologous.

Moreover, women don't live longer coz we have less T than men.

Testosterone might be associated with cardiovascular issues. Women are also smaller - within a species, smaller individuals tend to live longer (it's the opposite between species - larger species tend to have longer lifespans).

[–]MezozoicGay 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Men have around 20-30% faster metabolism, faster oxygenization of blood and body, bigger hearts and lungs (if same size and weight as women), faster blood delivery (while women can deliver more blood, just not as fast - I suppose for pregnancy), bigger percentage of red blood cells and faster regeneration and faster life-cycles of cells.

This means that body is oxidizing faster, cells are using chromosomal resource faster.

Only those facts are enough for us to die faster than women. And then we add low payment jobs/military which are exhausing body even faster, bigger risk of heart diseases because of bigger hearts, male on male violence - and we will get number even lower.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

If you think women's hair doesn't fall out, you are basing your entire view of women on pre-menopausal women and women in robust good health. After menopause, major hair loss is the norm for female people. Same goes for women with many health conditions.

It thins but doesn't bald like men.

Moreover, women don't live longer coz we have less T than men. It's coz we have XX chromosomes.

I think it was recently discovered that the Y chromosome doesn't actually do anything, it's the hormones. Everyone is initially female in the womb until the males are flooded with T.

Female people are not simply males with lower T, or with male bodies that "boobs and tubes" have been added to as you seem to think.

I know, you have pretty much everything except uterus pains and physical strength better than us.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Everything is toxic at a high enough dose. At normal levels, testosterone is mostly beneficial.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

But we don't get it at a normal dose, we get 20x more of it.

[–]dreamgerms 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

Almost everything you just listed sounds like your personal issues with masculinity and not like any kind of objective facts. Men having emotional issues and their obsession with aggression and physical violence really isn’t equal to centuries of being treated like second class citizens, sexual violence in war and times of peace, laws controlling and policing behavior and rights, forcible pregnancies, female genitalia mutilation, sex trafficking, witch burnings, etc., I could do on and on and on...

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (5 children)

Life is hard in general, and yes in times past the men suppressed the women, probably out of jealousy. But not anymore, in fact you can't give women enough special treatment to not be labeled sexist. It could be fixed and it was. But men are biologically worse off and pretty much miserable by design, and that can probably never be fixed. Even women in those oppressive societies are happier than men.

[–]YoutiaoLover 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Even women in those oppressive societies are happier than men.

I don't think child brides raped by their "husbands" multiple times until they die only a few months into the marriage or FGM victims who live in tremendous pain, reproductive health problems and need multiple surgeries to ease the suffering or women who has to abort their female fetuses multiple times a year because their husbands want a son are "happy".

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

They are still in the minority. And the men are likely even less happy, I believe because testosterone makes you constantly irritable.

[–]YoutiaoLover 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

are likely

I believe

How about go outside your imagination and visit reality?

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There are actually multiple studies done on that and this is what they found, research for yourself

[–]Liz-B-Anne 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You talk about human beings like we're mindless machines with zero control over our emotions or actions. You're responsible for your fucking happiness. Ditto for controlling your jealousy, rage, rape urges & every other impulse. Yeah we're animals but we also have highly evolved frontal lobes that set us apart from other species. All this evo psych nonsense sounds like justification for things you can definitely control. Unless you have some kind of frontal lobe damage.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

We are usually fairly stupid.

Men and women have the same average IQ, but the male IQ distribution is slightly flatter, so while more men are dribbling idiots, there are also more male geniuses.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

I've debunked this. Men are expected to pursue work and capitalize on their skills, whereas a dependent womanchild is socially acceptable. Seeing as it's extremely difficult to push yourself when not compelled to do so, women end up with more max potential but less motivation, and it evens out. I've seen how most of them chicken out and go "nope" when they see something they think looks even remotely hard, because most of them are used to being lazier and know they won't face any consequences if they don't perform. It's actually proven that women are generally more productive than men because men are designed to be alert and also rest more. Men pretty much discard mental abilities for strength and heightened coordination. And women can generally match or beat them in "male" skills like mental rotation of an object when given the confidence, but men still cannot even approach women in "female" skills. With this in mind I think it's amazing that women keep up with the men at all. So men are more likely to be geniuses but women have more ability to do so. And this matches my experience, there is one genius woman for every 10 genius men but she is usually more brilliant than half of them put together. And beyond that, the men are usually limited to STEM subjects while women can excel at both that and the more creative and artsy subjects.

Even if the above is not true, this still results in only a very, VERY few exceptional instances, and even then only in specific areas; everyone else is a colossal mess. The explanation supposedly is that since men are more disposable it's okay to screw 99% of them for these kinds of experiments. So unless you're in that 1% and like what you were gifted with, it's bad news for you.

[–]slushpilot 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Regardless of what you claim here—have you considered that perhaps those tests are designed to measure those "capitalized" skills at the exclusion of equally important "soft" skills? You measure what you value, and that's where you find the extremes of your scale.

For any society to function continuously and survive, a mix of both (and more) kinds of skills are vital. Call it what you want: stability vs. risk, conservative vs. progressive, or any other axis you choose. You'll never convince me that the right answer is one at the exclusion of the other.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Regardless of what you claim here—have you considered that perhaps those tests are designed to measure those "capitalized" skills at the exclusion of equally important "soft" skills? You measure what you value, and that's where you find the extremes of your scale.

Yes I think that too, but most people would see that as deflecting so I avoided it.

For any society to function continuously and survive, a mix of both (and more) kinds of skills are vital. Call it what you want: stability vs. risk, conservative vs. progressive, or any other axis you choose. You'll never convince me that the right answer is one at the exclusion of the other.

The issue is that one is a mostly positive experience while the other is mostly miserable. There's a good utilitarian reason why men are miserable, they're disposable, and being angry makes you a better warrior and laborer. And there's also a good utilitarian reason why women are more positive, because they have to be able to nurture children and do more "soft" work. But it's completely unfair, I wish the work and play would be more equally divided and that men would be worth more than replaceable machines.

[–]lefterfield 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I wish to live in your universe. It sounds nice.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

Nice? I utterly despise it.

[–]usehername 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Men do not have the ability to cope with stress and emotions and are explosively angry and prone to depression due to how our brain is wired

Enough excuses. Just say your frontal lobe is smooth from excessive porn use and go.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

I've never watched porn actually.

[–]usehername 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Good for you. I guess your smooth frontal lobe has a different cause then. It's likely that your defeatist attitude prevented you from putting in the effort required to control yourself.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's a known fact that men have more trouble controlling their anger and aren't as good at emotions. They mostly feel negative emotions, don't like to talk about feelings, and can't understand emotional responses from other people. This is because the emotional part of their brain is smaller and less active because their brain focuses more on physical ability and spatial awareness. I'm not just spouting nonsense here.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

And speaking of frontal lobes: it's smaller in men than women, because men prioritize the cerebellum and physical coordination as opposed to their personal mind: http://neurorelay.com/2012/10/07/female-brain-versus-male-brain/

[–]usehername 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I never said you were spouting nonsense. That's clearly a problem that has to do with men's priorities, not nature.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I literally linked you to an article that shows vastly different brains of the sexes. If it were really due to priorities then why is it consistently one way for one sex and another way for the other? It's nature. The truth hurts, women are designed to live and men to work, even in their cognition. I guess I'm too redpilled for most people. You're probably right to do that, denying the ugly truth is often better than accepting it if it can't be changed, and in this case it can't. Unfortunately for me my self-sugarcoating isn't convincing anymore.

[–]usehername 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Men aren't a vulnerable group, but of course misandry exists, just not on a broad scale. You're a nut.