Prominent secularist & scientist, Richard Dawkins, seems to be starting to wake up about gender ideology

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[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Prominent secularist & scientist as well as inventor of the word "meme"!

It's worrying, though, that he's recommending Deborah Soh's book. It's very badly written, full of sex stereotyping & false claims.

[–]penelopekitty 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

All of the "bros" love Deborah Soh because she panders to them. Dawkins is one of the bro heros. Yes, she is incoherent. If you can stomach it watch her interview with Joe Rogan. She is wearing a Playboy t-shirt.

[–]BEB[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Soh bugs the F out of me for the reasons you state. However, if it takes bros waking up to get some traction for our concerns, I'm OK with it.

[–]BEB[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I am meh about him, but I don't know much. I just have heard him spoken of with reverence, and also seem to remember that he was behind gender ideology before (I could be mistaken) so figured it was good that he was questioning at all.

Also, he retweeted that sweet young female activist who's under attack by trans activists for talking about female anatomy - so perhaps that's something?

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The only work of his I've read is The Selfish Gene but that was when it came out in 1976. But he's a longstanding public advocate for reason, debate, science, civility and free speech/expression. Since the 70s, Dawkins has also said many times that he supports feminism and feminists and admires how effective feminism has been in bringing about social change.

Coz of that and how critical of religion he is, I'm surprised he hasn't previously picked up on the fact that the Church of Genderology is the new state religion in much of the West, particularly in academia, that "no debate" is one of its commandments, and that to disagree with any of the creed's preposterous tenets is heresy & blasphemy that will get you cancelled - & if you're a woman, branded a witch. I dunno how he could have missed what's been happening.

I would've assumed that by now he's also read Alice Dreger's Galileo's Middle Finger which documented how trans activists have terrorized sexologists in 2015.

[–]lefterfield 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Everyone has their blind spots. Too many atheists only recognize harmful zealotry when it's backed by a God.

[–]BEB[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Some people in the twitter timeline are blaming him for causing the conditions that led to people seizing onto new gods.

That might be kind of true because Genderology and the fervor it inspires in many does seem almost religious.

[–]lefterfield 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah, I've heard that theory. The overarching one is the idea that humans need some concept of a god or the divine to function. If you take away mainstream religion from them, you get crazier gods and cults to replace it. I'm not sure if I believe that idea, but the evidence that Genderology has replaced Christianity in the US does seem legitimate. It's probably several factors, though: The loss of community(which church was part of), the loss of national identity, the loss of a lot of shared culture. Something had to replace that to give people meaning.

[–]BEB[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

And the internet, IMO gathering on internet sites allowed a shared quasi-religious experience. The Church of Tumblr ;-)

Have you heard the comparisons between the idea that it's possible to change sex and transubstantiation?

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes! To all of that. Far too many of their ideas are deeply religious and deeply cultish.

[–]supersmokio6420 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

As someone who's read a couple of his books and listened to many talks he's done over the years, its highly unlikely he's ever been behind gender ideology, I can't think of anything he's ever said to suggest he supports it and it seems really out of character. I've never heard of an evolutionary biologist who buys it.

[–]BEB[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

One would think, but I just seem to remember him saying or tweeting something in support of gender ideology and it surprised me and made me kind of dislike him.

I was actually supposed to have a conversation with him about 14 or so years ago, but that got canceled, so I didn't do the research I would have done otherwise. As a result, I know just about nothing about him beyond that he's some kind of fierce rationalist?

[–]supersmokio6420 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I've just seen that he tweeted this in 2015.

Is trans woman a woman? Purely semantic. If you define by chromosomes, no. If by self-identification, yes. I call her "she" out of courtesy.

He gives what I'd call a scientist's answer; he doesn't commit to a definite yes or no because 'woman' hasn't been defined in the question.

Saying he uses 'she' out of courtesy suggests he doesn't personally think they really are, and he gets attacked for that choice of words.

[–]BEB[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like I read something more pro-trans from Dawkins more recently than 2015.

[–]germinare 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah, he’s always been a bit of a misogynist, so that’s probably why it appeals to him.

However qualified he may be as a scientist, Dawkins has always been an insufferable idiot and outrage peddler when it comes to social issues and philosophy. I’ve always been embarrassed to share atheism with the likes of him, and likewise I’m embarrassed to share GC views with the likes of him.

We need better spokespeople. I wish Dawkins would just stay in his lane.

[–]BEB[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I could have sworn he said something earlier in support of gender ideology. I could very well be wrong.

[–]germinare 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Eh, probably. Like I said, he’s an idiot when it comes to social issues.

[–]Greykittymomma 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I saw a lecture of his once. This is very cool. TRA will still call him an idiot. They don't give a fuck about science 😂

[–]BEB[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Dawkins also retweeted this:

https://twitter.com/MediClit/status/1372628771086299137

[–]supersmokio6420 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The Dawkinator has been awoken. He folds creationists as if they were deckchairs. He'll fold these guys as if they were tissue paper.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Here's Dawkins on Twitter quoting one of the many sexist claims Soh makes in her book:

“I’ve had parents tell me their boys, upon being given dolls, will sling them around mercilessly by the hair, as though they are a weapon. Girls will arrange toy trucks into a family and tuck them into bed.” The End of Gender, by Debra Soh.

Monkey infants do something similar.

https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/1372611998119202822

Dawkins and Soh would freak out if they knew what many girls back in the 1950s and 60s did to our dolls.

[–]GConly 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

My daughter used to tie her dolls up and torture them.

I came into her room many times to fund Barbie's trussed up like chickens and hanging from their feet in a row.

She grew up to be a big Hannibal fan.

[–]MarkTwainiac 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, the idea that girls who are given dolls play with them only in nurturing, caring ways is ridiculous.

But that statement of Soh's is so typical of her intellectual laziness & sexism. Throughout her book, she makes sweeping statements about boys' & girls' development and "innate" preference for sex stereotypes that made my jaw drop - and all of them are based on what someone told her in passing or come from what's she's merely assumed based on her own clearly very narrow life experience. She goes so far as to say that dance, interest in children/childcare and cooking and liking stuffed animals are exclusively for female people. She also says that all girls & women are innately disposed to wanting long hair. Moreover, she constantly uses male & female when she means masculine & feminine, causing her write such doozies as "no one is 100% male or 100% female."

She depicts pregnant women in misogynistic ways too.

It's shocking to me that her book got published in the first place. It's really crap.

[–]BEB[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In grade school, I once spent the night at the house of a little girl who lived on the same street and who went to the same school. I was not actually friends with her.

We were playing Barbies, and she messed up her Barbie's hair and painted a black eye and bruises on her. Even at that young age (9?) I was like WTF?

I'm thinking that I must have told my mother, but I'm guessing she did nothing. What could she do? It was a time when women were still routinely hit and there weren't that many resources for them if any.

Decades later, I was walking down the street and for whatever reason I had a conversation with her father. He was a supremely unpleasant man and told me his daughter was estranged from him. And now I can guess why.