Drag queens and transvestism is gender appropriation and ‘womanface’

submitted by Kally from self.GenderCritical

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[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Women can wear dresses and pants but men can only wear pants. Dresses are for women.

Huh? I think you are in the wrong sub.

I feel that drag is a form of gendered blackface

I can see how you'd feel that way, but still I have to wonder: Have you asked black women what they think of the term "gendered blackface"?

I've asked, and a lot of black women say they don't like it. A number of black feminists have publicly asked that the term not be used, and have explained why they think the comparison between drag and transvestism - activities in which a lot of black men engage - is not only inappropriate, but it's "appropriating" and exploitative of the experience of black people, especially black people in/from the US, as well.

My own personal take of the argument against using the term and analogy "womanface" is mixed, as I think the comparison is a useful shorthand that can open eyes. I also don't buy the argument sometimes made that says blackface was connected to lethal violence against black people, but drag and transvestism have no connection to violence against women - coz I think drag and transvestism do dehumanize women, and dehumanization of women (and any other group) gives people a pass to disrespect and violence against them/us.

But as I am not black myself, I've taken on board what some black feminists have told me about how they think and feel about "blackface" and have decided to respect their wishes and not to use the term.

[–]DiscoStegosaurus 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I’m not the op, but it’s absolutely “woman face.” They are 100% correct there and I don’t see how anyone could disagree. Of course some people and leftists will oppose the term as it’s not “woke” to call a spade a spade anymore. Those people aren’t on our side. They’re how we got men threatening lesbians and women in the first place. In regards to the comment about dresses and skirts, I do feel that they’re off a bit. Clothing shouldn’t be gendered and men should be able to wear whatever they want however, unfortunately, it does seem that the vast majority of men only wear women’s clothing as fetish gear. Whereas a woman will wear a mans clothing without issue, too many men wear our clothing to pop a boner.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Those people aren’t on our side.

The people I was speaking of are some black women of varying political views and some black feminists. They are definitely on the side I am on as regards women's rights, male drag, transvestism and male transgenderism. I dunno what you mean by "our side" here, nor by "those people."

Also, just to be crystal clear: I wasn't saying this is a view held by all black women and black feminists, or even most of them. It's a view I've heard from some black women and some black feminists. I personally know some black women who disagree with it. However, since some black women and black feminists have expressed this view, and they feel strongly that "womanface" is offensive and exploitative, I as an individual have decided to take their views on board and refrain from using the term - even though I personally think it's a very useful shorthand way of making the point.

It's a very big leap to go from my comments to making a sweeping statement like

Have you not seen how much hate the liberal black community has for anyone who isn’t black lately?

The way the views of the "liberal black community" are represented by the MSM and on social media today seems as accurate as the way the views of women and "feminists" are represented. Which is to say, not very accurately.

BTW, I completely agree with you that

Clothing shouldn’t be gendered and men should be able to wear whatever they want however, unfortunately, it does seem that the vast majority of men only wear women’s clothing as fetish gear. Whereas a woman will wear a mans clothing without issue, too many men wear out clothing to pop a boner.

However, I also think that only after our culture stops designating certain kinds of clothing as exclusively for female people and making it forbidden and shameful for males to wear it that such clothing will lose its erotic charge and stop giving males a boner when they wear it.

I also think we need to do a much better job at talking to boys about sex, including forewarning them that the erotic fantasies, mental scripts and masturbatory practices they engage in early in life to get themselves aroused and off usually tend to stick and become habitual. So a boy who starts off wanking in his mum's or sister's panties when he's 11 might well end up 30 years later LARPing FT as a "lady" and claiming he's a woman.

[–]Kally[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Men can’t wear skirts or dresses unless it’s a part of their culture like kilts. Men only wear female clothing as a fetish. Harry Styles is a fetishist. Clothing is gender. Dresses and skirts are associated with women and guys wear them to get aroused.

[–]grixit 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Disagree. Why should a person be ruled by what someone else tells them is their culture?

[–]Kally[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The only reason men wear female clothing is to pop a boner.

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Spicy take you've got there.

[–]Kally[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Men can’t wear skirts or dresses unless it’s a part of their culture like kilts. Men only wear female clothing as a fetish. Harry Styles is a fetishist. Clothing is gender. Dresses and skirts are associated with women and guys wear them to get aroused.