Elliot Page and Emma Portner Announce Plans to Divorce After 3 Years of Marriage: We 'Remain Close Friends'

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[–]VioletRemi 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

After marriage Ellen became so depressed, and Emma was active pro-trans activist. I hope Page will recover from it.

[–]MarkTwainiac 12 insightful - 5 fun12 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 5 fun -  (15 children)

If El's wife is the big TRA here, why wasn't she the one to go trans? Or why didn't the two of them go trans together - so they could pretend to be two married gay men?

These are genuine questions. I don't have the background on this couple that others here seem privy to. But it seems to be commonly assumed that El went trans due to coercion, pressure or perhaps worse from El's wife. Which portrays El as an entirely innocent victim and El's wife as the guilty, nefarious villain who took advantage of El.

But is it really that black and white? I'd think that El's status as a Hollywood star who, compared to her wife, was always the one with far greater wealth, earning potential, name-recognition, institutional support (from agents, managers, studio execs, PR teams, attorneys and so on), that El would have at least equal standing in their relationship. Also, El is older by 7 or so years. At the time of their marriage, El was already 30 or more, whereas El's wife was only 23 or thereabouts.

My post illustrates that these two were not on equal footing. Here I am as a member of the general public referring to El's wife as El's wife - coz without her name being stated in the thread title, I'd have no idea what it is. All I've heard previously is that she's a choreographer-dancer who once did something in or for a Justin Bieber video. That's her main claim to fame outside her marriage - not enough to make her a household name. Whereas Page is a household name.

[–]yousaythosethings 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Emma gives off serious “Gone Girl” vibes. Both a quick and deep peruse show that every photo of them together involves Page looking lovingly and submissively toward Emma and searching for her approval while Emma shows coldness, disinterest, and smugness. Page started undergoing a clear rapid decline since they got together. And in this sense, Emma’s lack of public profile would work in her favor. For example, I don’t believe there is evidence that Emma had a prior history with women. If this is the case it provides an explanation for Page seeking to identify out of womanhood.

[–]MarkTwainiac 9 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

Emma gives off serious “Gone Girl” vibes.

Emma must be the villain coz she has "bad vibes"? Really?

Both a quick and deep peruse show that every photo of them together involves Page looking lovingly and submissively toward Emma and searching for her approval while Emma shows coldness, disinterest, and smugness.

I just did Google image searches under both their names individually and together. Saw nothing like this. On the contrary, saw tons of pics of the two smooching, smiling (or mugging for the camera) cheek to cheek, with arms draped around one another.

I admit, Emma isn't nearly as photogenic as El. Emma's strong facial structure is such that her "resting face" looks stern and forbidding, whereas El's delicate beauty is conventionally "feminine" and makes her naturally look more appealing and approachable. Also, Emma is much taller and far bigger boned than El and seems less graceful; I know Emma's a dancer, but in still photos she often looks stiff and ungainly and like she's not at all at ease. This is particularly true when posing with El for photos on the red carpet - in those sorts of shots, Emma often looks uncomfortable and tense, whereas El is not just relaxed, she's "all lit up" with her high-wattage star power turned on high.

This makes sense given that El has spent her entire life in front of cameras. El grew up having her image and look carefully shaped and highly curated and by an army of stylists, hairdressers, makeup artists and "image consultants;" she's been taught all the tricks of how to be photographed not just so she looks good, but also so comes off as nice; and she's comfortable being the center of attention and fawned over at publicity events and shoots coz all that stuff is part and parcel of her job.

I don’t believe there is evidence that Emma had a prior history with women. If this is the case it provides an explanation for Page seeking to identify out of womanhood.

So people's sexual orientation is only "valid" and can be presumed real when they provide strangers with documented "evidence" of it? Even today in the (new) era of social media when it's become all too common for people to post the details of their personal lives and everything they do online, many people still prefer to keep their private lives, well, private - and they do so.

Also, Emma was 23 when she and El married, probably younger when they first started dating. A lot of lesbians take a while to come out to themselves and to others - I know many who didn't come out until their mid 20s or even much later. El Page herself didn't come out as a lesbian until she was 27. What's more, prior to announcing that she's a lesbian, Page sure gave the world plenty of "evidence" that she was straight or bisexual by being very public about all the high-profile men she dated... So why the double standard?

You are blaming the mental health crisis and internalized misogyny of a full-grown woman soon to turn 34 entirely on the younger woman she has been involved with/married to for a tenth of her life or less. I have no idea what's occasioned El Page's evident mental health crisis, or what went on in her relationship with Emma Porter. But I do know enough about the etiology of mental illness, low self-esteem and internalized misogyny as well as what happens between married couples to be confident that the situation is not quite as simple as you're portraying it. It's not fair - nor is it feminist - to assume that when a relationship between two women breaks down, one is an evil villain whose "bad vibes" mean that whatever happened must be all her fault and only her fault, and the other woman is a pure, entirely innocent victim who couldn't have contributed to the couple's problems coz she's incapable of ever doing any wrong - and she presumably entered the relationship without any baggage or pre-existing issues of her own.

Finally, isn't the overarching message of "Gone Girl" that people aren't necessarily who they appear to be in the public eye, and no one outside a married couple's relationship can truly know - or even have an idea - what goes on between the two partners behind closed doors?

[–]yousaythosethings 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Again, another hard disagree with you though I don’t know what I expected. So much in your response that you can’t seriously think I actually believe based on my prolific posting about my own experiences, particularly with regard to my sexual orientation. But you clearly want yet another opportunity to unconvincingly explain why your assumptions having entered a discussion at the 11th hour are more sound than those closer to the subject.

I got out some quick thoughts I had on the subject because that’s all the time I had to offer to this topic given my interest level and time. I won’t bother with you next time. If you are genuinely curious about analysis from other people who have followed Page’s career for a long time, there’s plenty of it out there, particularly from the perspective of lesbians familiar with her career and the shit she’s been given in the media for being gay, and no, it is not uncritical of her.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

If you are genuinely curious about analysis from other people who have followed Page’s career for a long time, there’s plenty of it out there, particularly from the perspective of lesbians familiar with her career and the shit she’s been given in the media for being gay, and no, it is not uncritical of her.

I really am genuinely curious. So are many lesbians circa my age I know who have retired from the political scene and whom I am trying to get to engage again. So if you could provide links, we'd appreciate it.

you can’t seriously think I actually believe based on my prolific posting about my own experiences, particularly with regard to my sexual orientation.

I am truly, genuinely sorry, but I do not take much notice of people's user names, posting history, personal experiences or sexual orientation. I respond to posts and the views, ideas and evidence provided in said posts.

Part of the reason is that anyone can change his or her user name and profile at any time.

Another part of the reason is that I grew up and was educated in an era when everyone was taught to argue points and ideas - not persons, personalities, personal experiences, sexual orientations or "identities."

But you clearly want yet another opportunity to unconvincingly explain why your assumptions having entered a discussion at the 11th hour are more sound than those closer to the subject.

Huh? I've been reading about, discussing and fighting for lesbian and gay rights since the 1960s. As a teenager, I carefully followed the evolution of women who came into their feminism and lesbianism very painfully, such as Village Voice writer Jill Johnston whose large-type front-page headline from 1971 still stirs my heart as it did when I was a teen: Lois Lane Is A Lesbian. I grew up with great aunts and aunts on both sides of my family who were "spinsters" in "Boston marriages," and "adopted uncles" who were "bachelors" said "not to be the marrying kind." I was in the trenches during the AIDS crisis of the 80s and 90s. When I got married to a man in 1990, all my "attendants" in my wedding party were lesbians and gay men.

If anyone has "entered a discussion at the 11th hour" it just might well be you.

[–]Elvira95 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

She had not previous female relationship, but she look more like a lesbian than Ellen, stereotypically speaking, she's pretty mainly lol

[–]VioletRemi 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You mean that stereotype of "pretty woman can't be lesbian, only butch woman or fat woman can" ?

[–]Elvira95 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean the stereotype of masculine woman

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (3 children)

She had not previous female relationship, but she look more like a lesbian than Ellen, stereotypically speaking, she's pretty mainly lol

Elvira95, that's a pretty offensive statement.

[–]Elvira95 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

There is nothing offensive in saying someone is masculine, Mark

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

No, there's nothing offensive about saying someone - male or female - is "masculine." What in my opinion is offensive is saying "stereotypically speaking" that a woman you think looks "pretty manly" is more likely to be a lesbian than not.

I know many women who are lesbians whom others consider very "feminine" in appearance. And I know many women of all sexual orientations - straight, bi, lesbian - who are considered by some/many others to be "masculine." By today's regressive sexist standards, most of the "1950s housewives" who birthed and raised women of my generation would be considered much more "masculine" than "feminine."

Some women will be seen by others as either "masculine" or "feminine" by their culture's and generation's standards and definition of these terms throughout their lives. But how these women are or will be perceived by others is not necessarily indicative of the women's sexual orientations.

At the same time, amongst women who are fortunate enough to live a full lifespan (mid-80s to 90s), many will be regarded by others as both "feminine" and "masculine" at different points in life. Fact is, even women who appeared "feminine" from girlhood into their 50s commonly find that during and after menopause they'll often be seen by others as "masculine." And the more elderly women get, the more commonplace it is for us to be perceived by others as "manly."

Many older women whose looks have become naturally "masculinized" due to the aging process are presumed by others to be lesbians as a result - and these presumptions are made by other people of all sexualities. This sort of sexist stereotyping is not helpful to anyone.

I think it's time for all of us to stop assuming that because a person looks a certain way, that it's indicative of - or a tell of - the person's sexual orientation.

[–]Elvira95 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I'm a lesbian, and I'm not mainly. I was just saying her wife fit more the stereotype than Ellen. Of course stereotype don't represent reality

[–]yousaythosethings 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

My point is not that I think Emma may not be a lesbian because she had no prior relationship with a female. After all, I’m a late-starting lesbian who hasn’t been into relationships myself. But rather that the the lack of known dating history for her given the other indicators including the cold dynamic toward Page, could be indicia that’s she’s not homosexual.

[–]PassionateIntensity 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think Emma IDed as a lesbian. I think she was calling herself genderqueer and fluid or something. It can mess with your head when you aren't sure your partner is really into you, especially as a lonely low self-esteem lesbian (see, Noelle Stevenson, her wife, her wife's affairs and Noelle's current situation).

[–]SilenceThem_Consume 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm calling her as an mtf.

https://people.com/movies/elliot-page-and-estranged-wife-emma-portner-separated-months-before-announcing-plans-to-divorce/