all 15 comments

[–]SharpTomorrow 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

"feminism" has become a weasel word. There is no feminism if men can be women and and womanhood is considered "a feeling". Feminism has been co-opted by people who have an agenda, feminists didn't push back, the movement is now rotten to the core. unfortunately feminists themselves are to blame, because they pushed intersectionality which is divisive by nature. As soon as you reason about "subcategories" of women, this is what happen, you are building a hierarchy in your own struggle. It was a terrible mistake, no matter how well intended intersectionality was.

So your friend has been misled as to what feminism is at first place.

Men are not women and feminism was never designed for transsexuals. Gender stereotypes need to be fought, not normalized and enforced through the idea of "gender".

[–]Radish 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Absolutely. I stopped calling myself a feminist because nobody has any idea what that means any more. I hear people who I otherwise highly respect saying things like "oppression of femme-identified people"

I don't believe feminists are to blame, though. I don't believe feminists are really behind a movement that disguises itself as progressive but is characterized by telling women to shut up and that the movement knows what women are like better than women do. That sounds like regressive malespeak to me.

[–]SharpTomorrow 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don't believe feminists are to blame, though. I don't believe feminists are really behind a movement that disguises itself as progressive but is characterized by telling women to shut up and that the movement knows what women are like better than women do. That sounds like regressive malespeak to me.

I think some are to blame in the sense that they came up with intersectionality which by itself created categories of women instead of uniting them. I remember when I was on r_gendercritical on reddit, there were posts about making sub forums only accessible to women that are at least 60% black. Or with the "karen" debate, where "black feminists" told other to "stay on their lane". That's the result of intersectionality. Either something is sexist or it isn't, it cannot depend what is the race of who says something. Same with racial divisions, you unite women by dividing them along race lines at first place, all that has nothing to do with feminism.

Well TRA and co are doing exactly the same thing, pretending that "ciswomen" are privileged because they are not transsexual.

Feminism needs to focus only on the condition of every women and females as a class, yes racism can be an adjacent struggle, but where does it stop? After all, some muslim women are "oppressed" by "islamophobes", Should feminists defend Islam as well? a mysoginistic religion? This is very subtle but it leads to entrism. I point out "islamophobia" because some muslims consider the criticism of Islam "islamophobia". Should feminists stay silent not to offend them as well?

[–]Radish 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I do not believe that all the divisiveness is feminist. I don't think telling women to sit down and shut up is ever indicative of a movement for women.

All religions are oppressive to women, and I don't mind saying so. That doesn't mean I don't have respect for the women in them. Just not the oppressive religions (not sure why you think I was advocating for defending islam or for staying silent about woman hating abuse here)

There are people standing in line to blame "the feminists" for everything. By that, they tend to mean "Any woman who has an opinion I don't like or who voices it in a manner I don't like." I refuse to join that line.

[–]SharpTomorrow 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There are people standing in line to blame "the feminists" for everything. By that, they tend to mean "Any woman who has an opinion I don't like or who voices it in a manner I don't like." I refuse to join that line.

And that's not what I'm saying. It's just that feminism cannot be about every single possible struggle on the planet.

[–]Radish 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Feminism should be about women. It has been corrupted to be defined in so many different ways (many not having the words "women" "girls" or "female" in it at all) that it no longer has that meaning, and people don't know what they're talking about.

[–]Finnegan7921 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Feminists bear some, but not all of the blame. It is the same for the LGB's who gladly let the T's in and tolerated the bullshit and the end result is what you see today. Both groups went all in on the intersectional hierarchy of victimhood where the more boxes you check, the higher up you are. Those who rise high inevitably shit on those below by claiming to be more oppressed which entitles them to a greater right to speak out(while those below need to just stfu b/c, you know, reasons, Karen ! Don't trigger me with your privileged microagressions !!!) and also to be gatekeepers. They decide who can speak out, what views will be tolerated and who gets cancelled for running afoul of the groupthink.

[–]windrunner 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You said it all!

[–]Archie 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

. I stopped calling myself a feminist

I understand the struggle but I think that's the opposite of what we should be doing. Imo we need to do our best to reclaim the word. I like to describe myself "like a more old school, second wave feminist". Saying the ideas we support like destroying gender roles are more than a century old helps to defend them.

I do the same with leftism btw. I'm a pro union, pro workers right, anti-religion leftist, not a pro TRAs bullshit liberal.

[–]889250[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I can't understand where the trans people even fit in in feminism, it makes much more sense that they don't and never have. I do feel for the LGB people who are lumped in with that group, how does trans fit into a group that is about defining your sexuality? Trans isn't a sexuality.

I've grown up thinking gender stereotypes are bad and we need to move away from them as much as possible. It blows my mind that here people are, saying if a boy likes to play with dolls when he's younger that means he's actually a girl. Way to hammer in that outdated way of thinking that girls have to like dolls and pink, and not allowing boys to like anything that's not trucks and tools. It's so damaging to males and females to encourage this narrow view and I don't understand how people don't see it.

[–]windrunner 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

how does trans fit into a group that is about defining your sexuality? Trans isn't a sexuality.

Anyone inside that 'community' who dares to make this observation is quickly branded transphobic.

[–]windrunner 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

As soon as you reason about "subcategories" of women

and how one is 'more oppressed' than the other

[–]eddyelric 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Honestly, this issue has been creeping for some time, like in the past decade. Many feminists have been silenced just for talking on this issue and then get kicked out of feminist groups. I guess some women are more concerned about appearing progressive and helping the trans-identified males feel good. Pronoun-policing is a lot easier than doing actual feminist activism.

[–]889250[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's absolute insanity lol. Hearing "feminists" praise the firing and cancelling of other women for daring to question the TRA agenda was so strange.

How is it progressive to encourage young, confused girls who may not feel "girly enough" to get double mastectomies because they don't like their bodies or periods and then pump them full of testosterone? Wild. I believe its because nobody wants to feel even the slightest bit of discomfort anymore and will go to great lengths to avoid it. Puberty is supposed to be uncomfortable. And if we just totally got rid of the ideas of what's deemed "feminine enough" and "masculine enough" we might have less confused people.

[–]pollyesther 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

These people are not feminists. They are pretend feminists.