Suddenly it’s like their lesbianism never existed :(

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[–]our_team_is_winning 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I guess I am the only person who uses the internet and had NEVER heard of this woman ever, not even in passing. Was she famous for some movie? (I realize I could look her up, but I'd actually have to care....) I presume she has a LOT of money, so I should say "well done," but she still looks female and her need to role play seems silly.

I always imagine if women like this (I don't mean her, as I honestly know NOTHING about her, only she's been all over the internet for her genderspecial stunt) -- if they got arrested for something and put in the men's jail, even overnight, how well would that go?

[–]VioletRemi 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

She was very young and brave lesbian who came up as lesbian and get into hollywood, a lot of young lesbians made her their idol to follow. There were no other young famous lesbian out there, and she was so happy and came out even under fear of loosing a lot of roles because of that. That is why her "becoming trans" was so hurtful - a lot of lesbian saw, that even rich and famous lesbian can't run away from it and that only way of going against the bullying is to transition. I can imagine many young gnc/butch lesbians becoming transmen because of this her move, and ruining their bodies and health.

By Tavistock own data, around 1/3 of girl who applied to transition stated reason of transition as "liking girls", fifth were bisexual and gender nonconforming, around 2/3 of all girls and teens transitioning in Tavistock are just lesbian, bisexual and gnc young women. It is just eugenics at this point. And because of this - such move from Ellen Page (most likely forced by her wife, as her wife is full into TRA), last famous young lesbian, was devastating.

[–]MarkTwainiac 14 insightful - 4 fun14 insightful - 3 fun15 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

Sorry, I don't think it's fair to characterize Ellen page as the

last famous young lesbian

Or to say

There were no other young famous lesbian out there

What about Kate McKinnon, Kristen Stewart, Cara Delevingne? They are young and famous with big Hollywood careers.

And why does a famous lesbian have to be "young" to be seen by young lesbians as worth paying attention to and looking up to? Do Clea Duvall, Kate Moennig, Sarah Paulson and Ellen Degeneres not count as admirable and as role model material for younger lesbians coz at over 40 they're too old? Are the uber-successful star Lily Tomlin and veteran actor Holland Taylor automatically excluded from being considered brave and potential idols coz Tomlin is 81 and Holland is 77? This sounds very ageist to me. And self-defeating, coz people who look for icons and idols only amongst people close to their own age are bound to find they've limited the pool to very slim pickings.

Also, is it only Hollywood actresses who can count as role models for young lesbians these days? At age 39 and with a massive worldwide fan base, the musician LP (Laura Pergolizzi) strikes me as both young and famous - so how can anyone say that there are/were "no other young famous lesbians out there" except for El Page? This video of LP's has nearly 650 million views, & it's only one of many of her videos that have gotten hundreds of millions of views, putting her in Lady Gaga territory. I'd say that makes LP as famous as El Page, perhaps more so. https://youtu.be/wDjeBNv6ip0

Hollywood and the entertainment industry have changed enormously since the days when gay male stars like Rock Hudson, Montgomery Clift, Tab Hunter, George Hamilton and Liberace had to pretend they weren't gay. The entertainment world is still far more hospitable to gay men than it is to lesbians - just as the rest of the world is. But it's certainly a far cry from how it was was when Tomlin, Holland Taylor and Degeneres were coming up.

Also, if younger people feel their role models and idols all must be famous and from the entertainment world, why not cast the net wider than just the acting profession?

Lesley Gore was 16 when she became an international superstar with her hit "It's My Party" in 1963, and 17 when she recorded the feminist anthem "You Don't Own Me" in 1964. https://youtu.be/JDUjeR01wnU

Hildegarde Loretta Sell, known worldwide in the 20th century as "Hildegarde the Incomparable," was in her early 20s when she became a international recording, short film & radio star as well as the biggest supper club sensation of the 20th century. https://youtu.be/rX3mXhnzyFE

Those two pioneering lesbian popular entertainers - and many other women like Janis Ian, Joan Armatrading, KD Laing, Melissa Etheridge, Tracy Chapman - were/are just as "brave," famous and admirable as El Page, and they like all of us once were young women too. So why can't they be role models and idols for young lesbians today?

And what about all the other fields to choose from? Why not choose as icons/idols lesbian writers like Gertrude Stein, Rita Mae Brown, Jeanette Winterston? Or an athlete and activist like Martina Navratilova?

[–]yousaythosethings 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Sarah Paulson calls women/lesbians TERFs. Hardly a role model. I don’t think Tracy Chapman has officially come out of the closet so even she doesn’t want to be a lesbian role model. It’s also already been pointed out that some others you mentioned are not lesbians.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

El Page called women TERFs when she was still calling herself a lesbian, but it seems she only stopped being a lesbian icon and role model recently after she announced she's "trans." If calling women TERFs didn't disqualify Page from being a role model, how come it disqualifies Paulson? Not a rhetorical question. I'm legitimately interested in knowing what explains the double standard.

https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/originals/ellen-page-on-why-she-isnt-here-for-your-anti-lgbtq-religious-bullsht/

BTW, I think both women stink for calling other women TERFs and drinking the trans kool-aid, but I don't get why Page was allowed to use the T slur - and also permitted to say a lot of other awful stuff, like calling people who doubted Jussie Smollet's story racists and homophobes - without having her "lesbian idol" status tarnished.

Re Tracy Chapman: the key is what is meant by "officially" coming out. Chapman is someone who grew up before the era of social media, and is a private person. Prior to social media, coming out meant telling your friends, family and perhaps work colleagues and some neighbors you were especially close to. Some celebs have might come out in a press interview, but many kept their personal lives more private. In the absence of FB, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, nobody took out notices in newspapers, bought radio or TV time to tell the world, sent mass mailings, posted "guess what, I'm gay!" announcements on bulletin boards at work or school.

[–]yousaythosethings 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Two things: I have been calling out Ellen Page for a while on her anti-women and anti-lesbian actions so she hasn’t been a role model to me personally in recent times. For example when she contributed to getting a lesbian bad in Japan shut down. I’m giving you my perspective on who is available as a role model and Ellen was not a role model to me until Elliot happened. I knew about the stuff with Page before the stuff with Sarah. I can’t respect the celesbians who betray women and lesbians in that way.

Second, I’m a fan of Tracy Chapman and her music but I think she’s made it pretty clear she doesn’t want to address her sexual orientation even though she was outed by ex-girlfriends. We can obviously look up to her but you must admit that it’s odd to have to rely on a lesbian role model who hasn’t admitted to being a lesbian and doesn’t talk about it. She could be bisexual for all we know. Nothing wrong with that but someone being able to communicate and publicize issues that are unique to being a lesbian would be a nice thing to have in a role model.

[–]grixit 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Heh. Before the Internet, coming out as gay was a comedy theme, with the protagonist having to approach or phone people one at a time and then being disappointed at the lack of reaction.