all 5 comments

[–]MarkTwainiac 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The woman in that video's haircut, clothing and overall "gender presentation" looks exactly like most of the (almost entirely heterosexual) women in the new mothers' support group I attended in 1991 - right down to the cut of the high-waisted and factory-faded "mom jeans," LOL. The only difference is that many of us had hair that was a whole lot shorter. But funny thing was, no one ever questioned our sex or considered us to be other than women. And we certainly didn't think our comfortable, practical clothing and can't-be-bothered-coz-too-sleep-deprived-and-baby-is-wailing grooming style meant we were edgy, cool, outré rebels. On the contrary, most of us felt like that the act of becoming moms meant we were sell-outs who'd caved to conformity and betrayed the values of our second-wave feminist, punk and new-wave era youth.

BTW, in the 1970s, the cut of the jeans was different, but lots of ordinary women of all sexualities who weren't seen (in their own eyes or the eyes of others) as at all butch customarily wore jeans and oversized plaid (often flannel) shirts, either unbuttoned with a T-shirt like the woman in this vid, or buttoned-up alone. Depending on the weather, our everyday footwear tended to be hiking boots, "chukka boots," wellies, Doc Martens, cowboy boots, snow or rain boots from places like LL Bean, sneakers, super-ugly Clarks shoes like Wallabies, wooden clogs or some kind of sandals or flip-flops.

In the mid-late 1960s and 70s, lots of girls and women of all sexualities wore jeans made for males - like Levis 501s with the button fly - too. IIRC, we bought these in men's or "unisex" shops. In the US, girls and women also commonly wore a bunch of clothes made for men that we bought in Army-Navy surplus stores, such US Navy-issue pea coats, green army jackets, wool sailor pants with a flap double rows of buttons instead of a fly, down-filled jackets with fur-trimmed hoods meant for soldiers in cold climates, GI T-shirts and socks, sailor shirts and so on.

[–]oofreesouloo 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Omg, they're so stupid...

Even me, who am not masculine in any way, sometimes don't want "to be seen as a woman" to guys because I don't want male attention as a lesbian. I wouldn't mind at all that guys saw me as a man, I even would prefer it. But this isn't because I'm a man or want to be one. It's because of discomfort males make me when they sexualize women (and lesbians).

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Same.. I'm a femme lesbian and I've felt it too doesn't mean I'm not a woman.... I dont want to be seen the way men look at women because its demeaning and horrible.

[–]eddyelric 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How disappointing...

[–]emptiedriver 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

well I guess this explains how such a high percentage of kids are trans now... If all it means is that you had a tomboy phase or short hair then maybe it will just fade out into a totally who cares level, we can stop talking about it so much and people can be free to dress how they want. I guess the annoying part is the need to catalog each other so much - like would you have to shop in the "enby" section of a store to find ordinary casual clothing?

It reminds me a bit of all the self-defined autism or spectrum or ADHD people out there who consider themselves to have a specific diagnosis instead of a personality. It's good to share how we're different with each other but we don't need to put ourselves into boxes and decide we're "not normal" when we locate a trait that matches or doesn't match some chart. I don't think there is a "normal" just like I don't think there is a standard gender. People vary.