straight girl tifs with gay male fetishes are straight up admitting to it now,,, @ gay men i am so sorry

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[–]wecandobetter 31 insightful - 9 fun31 insightful - 8 fun32 insightful - 9 fun -  (0 children)

LMAO what the hell are these mental gymnastics?? "Most females discover they are attracted to males sexually during puberty" should be the title of this post. So many unnecessary steps to arrive back at regular old run of the mill heterosexuality. My god.

[–]gencritcurious[S] 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I really feel bad for the gay male community these days,,, this is a problem for me the other way around as a lesbian, but the ratio of “gay” tifs to “lesbian” tims is 10:1 (at least for my generation). honestly, tifs scare me more these days just because of how bold they are lmao

[–]artetolife 37 insightful - 1 fun37 insightful - 0 fun38 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Girls like this are very rarely as pushy and invasive as the transbians so they're kind of easy to avoid. Usually if they ever make it into an all-gay-male space they end up all intimidated and uncomfortable so they run back to their little FTM spaces.

[–][deleted] 27 insightful - 3 fun27 insightful - 2 fun28 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I've seen TIFs get a rude wakeup call when they actually try to date gay males (not straight men who overlook transitioning.) In one study 31% of gay males have 4+ partners a year. One TIF was shocked to find a guy call her vagina a "bonus hole." UwU soft boy yaoi is made for straight women and has no connection to actual gay male sexuality. It's odd that a female person who was a male all along is attracted to erotica intended for females.. - wait no it's not, not at all.

source: https://contexts.org/blog/an-unequal-distribution-of-partners-gays-versus-straights/

[–]gencritcurious[S] 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

true. transbians arent satisfied until every lesbian in a 100km radius says that they’re valid and would date them, while gay tifs will date other tifs at least...

[–]artetolife 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, tifs tend to disappear fairly quickly out of the 'culture' because they're satisfied once they find a man with low enough standards, which is probably easier for them than transbians.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 18 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I just feel sorry for these young girls aswel because noone explains to them that yaoi and shounen ai is made by women for women, like romance novels, and it has nothing to go with gay men. And now they destroy their bodies with hormones because they think they are gay.

It would be hilarious if weren't so damn tragic. Where are their parents?

[–]BiologyIsReal 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Eh.. The fact that yaoi is made by women for women have been well known within anime fandom for years. I really don't know what kind of mental gymnastics they are doing to justify they have discovered their true self through yaoi, especially because there is already another manga genre, bara, that is aimed at gay men, who usually are not yaoi fans.

[–]artetolife 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

If not the anime fandom then the actual gay male community could definitely tell them it's a crock of shit, but for some reason they go ahead with the transitioning and then act surprised when irl gay men aren't like the fujo fantasy.

[–][deleted] 19 insightful - 4 fun19 insightful - 3 fun20 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

We are all meat in cages. Do whatever gives the meat serotonin. The meat demands serotonin.

This is the most disturbing comment to me. I'm trying to put the sinking feeling I'm getting into words... To be so separated from your body and what you're doing to it concerns me. To be motivated by pure hedonism on top of that... I hope that person gets help and finds some sort of meaning in their life beyond this.

[–]gencritcurious[S] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

while i do agree with the idea that these are delusional vulnerable girls with dissociative fantasies, i also think that some tifs are malicious. If it was the other way around with a tim watching lesbian porn and turning into a “transbian”, we would definitely count that as a fetish, and i believe that same logic can be applied to women

[–][deleted] 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Reason 9876546789 why I'm not universally empathetic to trans men just because they're female. Some of them are just as fetishy and gross as trans women.

[–]wecandobetter 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Also they're the ones throwing fits over female labeling on Tampon boxes. Bunch of brats.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly! I definitely empathize with their desire to escape certain aspects of femaleness and being uncomfortable with their gender roles. But being unhappy is not an excuse to be an asshole. The ones trying to separate femaleness from pregnancy and periods, just like the ones depicted in the screenshots fetishizing gay men, get no empathy from me.

[–]divingrightintowork 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Ugh in a gender discourse group on Facebook I'm in some TiF was talking about how like men on grindr will be like "Oh ugh fuck off ya g*sh," when they find out they're talking to a woman - and she's like "You don't have to be mean about it!"

And it's like are you fucking kidding me? You're a woman in a gay man's space, you shouldn't even be here and you should sure as fuck expect hostility.

[–]Portrynial 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Should NOT expect hostility. I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you there. Shouldn't the idea be that people can disagree with each other, without getting hostile about it? So those gay guys, or you, can disagree with a tif being on Grindr. But still be civil about it. Unmatch, use the block button, etc.

From what you wrote, I didn't read any hint that the tif you were talking about was trying to guilt trip the gay guys or coerce them. Unless there's more about it you didn't say. A dating app match is only the first point of communication.

You can say no without getting aggressive (if it's not needed.) You don't hear about women screaming at men or "transbians" just because they matched on Tinder. Aside from most probably find it scary to do so even if a guy gets pushy.

What I see here, is an outlook of males looking for an excuse to abuse a woman, verbally, or however he can get away with it. Because if it seems like she deserved it, then he appears to have a pass to do anything he wants -to push things further than needed.

That particular situation doesn't sound like it's so much to do with trans identity/gendercritical issues. It's to do with verbal abuse of women. Those gay guys sounds like possible psychopaths.

[–]divingrightintowork 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

If you went to a support group for people who lost family in 9/11 and you lost no one in 9/11 and you kept talking about how your family's funeral was so hard, or what not, it was even worse than loosing someone in 9/11, you don't think it's unreasonable that some people may start to get upset with you?

[–]Portrynial 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah that's reasonable. You didn't mention whether that tif person was saying something similar to that, in their conversations with gay guys. I don't know what they talked about in your grindr example. I just know that there are guys who have a tendency to jump at the chance to intimidate a woman, when they don't need to.

In your example of the support group, it would be fair for them to disagree with the person, and to ask the person to leave. It would not be fair though, for the support group to get hostile about it, to suddenly speak in a threatening tone to the person, just because they can. Not unless the individual themself was trying to bully someone in the group, or refusing to leave.

Think about it: That intimidation type of behavior is something men tend to do to women, whether they make it seem like a woman deserved it or not. It's not something women do to men, even when men are bothering them. Then the attitude is "She was asking for it." And isn't that strange how nobody keeps males in check even close to that level for women? Somehow it's always made to seem like it's women who deserve men's aggression.

[–]divingrightintowork 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You do understand Grindr is a gay men's (re: homosexual) dating / hook up app - there is no reason a female should be on it. At all. Sure "no one should ever be mean to anyone,' but similarly it's on me if I invade a space that isn't for me and I shouldn't yell about how mean people in that space are because they complain about me being there. Similarly I think it would be reasonable for women to tell men to fuck off if goes into a lesbian bar / is on a female exclusive dating app. Whether or not she will is a different question but if a guy complained to me about how mean women at the lesbian bar were to him I'd indeed say "What the fuck were you doing in a lesbian bar?" Not "oooh noo no one should be mean to anyone."

[–]Portrynial 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, I do understand about Grindr as a gay men's app. That's why I said before, you can disagree with a trans person being on there. I just don't think it makes sense to get hostile just because you disagree with someone. There are better ways to communicate, if it's not a situation where you need to defend yourself.

I'm not trying to side with trans vs gendercritical. But technically, Grindr says it's "for gay, bi, trans, and queer people" their words. That doesn't mean that gay men have to date tifs. I can understand if one would prefer the site to be a gay only, even if it technically isn't. But like I said, the hostility does not make sense. Just un-match.

The way I understand it, the problem with the modern trans cult is their promoting violence against women, taking over women's sports, shutting down women's spaces, blackmailing lesbians to sleep with them, threatening people for using the wrong pronouns, trying to shut anyone down who even talks about female anatomy or the experience of being a woman, forcing everyone to agree with them.

Your lesbian bar example represents a desire to protest that violence. Though if a man simply shows up peacefully at a lesbian bar, it's more realistic that he'll just be told that he has to leave. I don't think there would be a problem with the trans movement, if all they did was show up peacefully to spaces where not everyone agrees they belong (but if it's not against the rules.) If they weren't collectively trying to harm women. Not everyone agrees on everything.

Now look at the example of the tif on Grindr you were talking about. Fair enough you feel she does not belong there. She still wasn't threatening to shut down men's or women's spaces, nor threatening anyone to not reference male (or female) anatomy, nor erasing male athletes in sports, and probably was not pressuring/blackmailing gay guys to sleep with her (unless there's more to it I don't know about.) Guys can easily click "un-match." Guys were not being threatened by her.

She COULD be doing those things, we just don't know about it. So I don't think your Grindr story about her represents the real problem. It's not whining that "No one should be mean to anyone." It's just, be a little more reasonable.

Saying she should expect hostility from gay men, is the same attitude the lgbtq cult has about wanting to shut down anyone who doesn't agree with them. Trying to shut people down JUST BECAUSE is not healthy, for any reason.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't think using a slur is really that hostile, it's not a threat of violence. And I don't think it's being sexist - men throw slurs at each other all the time. It is rude though. I don't think these gay guys are psychpoaths for being rude when turning a woman down sexually. I think they're being honest that they're fed up, which is good. To me it's cruel to let people think that they aren't annoying when they are.

[–]Portrynial 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They weren't merely turning a woman down sexually or being rude. It sounds like they were pressing it further to try to intimidate. There's a certain tone of speaking, or way of writing something that people use that's meant to intimidate. It doesn't always have to do with slurs or a specific word.

For instance, if someone says "Shut the fuck up, you fucking feminist cunt." Then the phrase itself is hostile. But not because of just the word "cunt." You wouldn't just say, "Well, 'Cunt' isn't that bad of a word. Therefore that person said nothing abusive."

[–]Cicerosolo 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (21 children)

Women don't get fetishes/paraphilias. That's a strictly male thing

[–]wecandobetter 26 insightful - 5 fun26 insightful - 4 fun27 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

Examine what this actually is - teenage females finding out they're turned on by physically beautiful young males. How kinky! How unusual! ...............no. It's heterosexuality. There's hardly been a female teenager born on earth that wasn't into boy bands or kid actors. That's ALL. But because these porny relationships are presented exclusively as male-male, they think THEY need to be male to have these loving egalitarian relationships. The only male-female relationships they see in anime/porn are the kind where the female is presented as a doll/toy/object of torture/humiliation/domination. Which one would you, as a scared teen, gravitate towards?? Obviously the sexual dynamic that involves less anal rape.

[–]Cicerosolo 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

To me it's all very much fascinating how the human mind struggles to find happiness in circumstances where the struggle for food, shelter and other necessities are fairly non existent

[–]wecandobetter 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This a million times, with more and more extreme and self destructive hedonistic habits attending it

[–][deleted] 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

there are female pedophiles, that's really all that needs to be said about this. But girls can get animesick and pornsick too, especially through yaoi, even if it is less often. Looking at anime porn appears to damage people in that there can be quicker escalation of impossible fetishes and attraction/fixation on something that can't exist in the real world.

[–]Cicerosolo 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Well, male paedophiles and female ones have fundamentally different behaviours and attractions but irrespective of that, paedophilia in my view doesn't fit the strict definition of a paraphilia, it's more of a sexuality (extremely contentious and hotly argued). Paraphilias/fetishes are a latent and distinct form of sexual interest , entirely absent from the female mind in any real real numbers. My God, just think of the breadth and range of male paraphilias. It's staggering. I'll try to find the scholarly article from a sex researcher that sold me on this view. I do think women should be more aware of this and learn more fear of the male sexual deviance and the way it dominates the weak.

[–]uwushallnotpass 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

paedophilia in my view doesn't fit the strict definition of a paraphilia, it's more of a sexuality

A prison psychologist with 11 years' experience of treating paedophiles would strongly disagree with you+. Paedophiles do not find children "hot" in the same way that adults find other adults "hot". They are turned on solely by the idea of violating the boundaries of someone defenceless and innocent. There is a reason why all of the sex dolls made for paedophiles have shocked and frightened expressions. It doesn't have anything to do with a "target location error" - this is anti-science propagated by people like James Cantor, who are trying to normalise the acceptance of paedophilia as a sexual orientation. There is a lot of evidence that paedophilia can develop from years of watching hardcore pornography, in the same way as all other paraphilias like AGP. Gail Dines states that not a single one of the convicted paedophiles she interviewed were initially attracted to children - they reported that they "got bored" with standard pornography and wanted to "try something new". They started with child pornography, and progressed to raping children.

(+ He is a Christian, and has corresponding opinions on homosexuality that I do not agree with and am certainly not endorsing. But this doesn't discredit his research into paedophilia, which appears to be solid and grounded in a careful evidentiary process.)

[–]Cicerosolo 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Oh God, please no men are turned on by power rather than physical attraction. I thought we'd stop doing that post dreger's book galileo's middle finger. That may be a component but the biggest component physical attraction. I've seen material arguing they have an erotic target location that gets stunted during development. So when they're 8 they love other 8 year olds but it just never moves beyond that, even as they age. I'm sorry if I sound strident but the female view that male sexuality is an adjunct of power dynamics primarily or only is laughable. We need to all except that for many men are gutter trash primarily moved by physical attraction to weird shit. Still, on the main point, my view it's not a paraphilia is not the dominant view, I just find it most compelling. I do think male sexuality is so weird. There's like heterosexual, bi, homosexual, autogynephile, paedo. Maybe I read too much Blanchard

But you do make a good point later. I've seen people who work with these scum divided into two: those who get there through porn escalation, those who are paedos from young. I don't know if the former is concrete enough to be cured but the latter cannot, like a sexuality. Well, there is one way to cure them but everyone seems more into acceptance these days

[–]Cicerosolo 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Oh God, please no men are turned on by power rather than physical attraction. I thought we'd stop doing that post dreger's book galileo's middle finger. That may be a component but the biggest component physical attraction. I've seen material arguing they have an erotic target location that gets stunted during development. So when they're 8 they love other 8 year olds but it just never moves beyond that, even as they age. I'm sorry if I sound strident but the female view that male sexuality is an adjunct of power dynamics primarily or only is laughable. We need to all except that for many men are gutter trash primarily moved by physical attraction to weird shit. Still, on the main point, my view it's not a paraphilia is not the dominant view, I just find it most compelling. I do think male sexuality is so weird. There's like heterosexual, bi, homosexual, autogynephile, paedo. Maybe I read too much Blanchard

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Okay, I'm intrigued. If you've got research, I'd love to read it and learn more. You could post it as a separate thread too - I'm sure many would like to see this.

[–]gencritcurious[S] 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

i don’t really think thats true, ofc its more common in males, but anyone with sexual organs can be conditioned to get a sexual kick out of something.

[–]Cicerosolo 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I wish that were true but male and female sexuality are fundamentally different. Only a tiny, tiny minority of women could be said to get paraphilias but even then, the overwhelming majority of that population is masochistic whereas the male fetish umbrella is fucking disgusting.... And dangerous. But anyway, this is just my view and what I've read, particularly when reading up on agp and more unsavoury topics

[–]MarkTwainiac 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, I think these are psychological fixations and clearly phony pretenses by girls and young women who are sexually naive, inexperienced fabulists disconnected from their bodies and reality - rather than genuine sexual fetishes.

[–][deleted] 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Women don't get fetishes/paraphilias. That's a strictly male thing

I don't think you meant anything by this, but people who said shit like this (among other things regarding aspects of sexuality that women supposedly don't experience) is part of what made me think I was a trans man, or supposed to be born male. It's not helpful. It only worsens the TIF problem.

[–]Cicerosolo 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

That's all well and good but I'm not going to disguise what I think is an extremely important difference between male and female. Any woman who imagined her sexuality to be anything similar to the male paraphilic drive arent being accurate.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not saying there's not a difference. You can acknowledge that fetishes/paraphilias occur more frequently in men without saying any woman who experiences them is being inaccurate or saying that women don't experience them at all point blank. Physical aggression is also more common in men but it is not solely a male trait. As someone mentioned above, anyone with sex organs can develop a fetish/paraphilia under the right conditions. Just because this happens less often in women doesn't mean it never does, nor that these occurrences are statistically insignificant. IMO the rise in TiFs who fetishize gay male relationships, and gay men in general, is proof that women with this particular fetish now have an outlet in which is considered 'okay' to act it out. Otherwise they'd be silent about it because "women don't have fetishes" so you'd never hear about them. Outside of fandom circles anyway, yaoi fangirls have always been pretty loud there.

Statements that box people in like "men/women don't/never X" only add to the problem of more people thinking they were born the wrong sex. The same way you aren't going to disguise what you consider an important distinction in this case, I'm not going to disguise that statements like this contribute to the problem of needlessly trapping people in gender boxes based on their behaviors.

To make things clear, I'm not here to glorify paraphilias. They're very unhealthy no matter who has them. But to say they never occur in women at all under any circumstance, and that all women who claim to experience them are just lying to themselves is just not true.

[–]yousaythosethings 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think some women do but it’s much more rare. We had what appeared to be an autoandrophile in s/lesbians recently that was convinced she was a lesbian but was grossed out with the sex with women she forced herself to have, was obsessed with talking about sex with men and penis fantasies, and thought of herself as a man during sex with women. It was uncanny valley stuff. It also seemed to involve some kind of component of sexual orientation OCD.

[–]Cicerosolo 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

That doesn't sound like a paraphilia to me: Paraphilias are frequent, intense, sexually arousing fantasies or behaviors that involve inanimate objects, children (although I find children to be distinct to a normal paraphilia... More of an erotic target location error) or nonconsenting adults, or suffering or humiliation of oneself or the partner

[–]yousaythosethings 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Do you consider autogynephilia to be a paraphilia? Because this sounded a lot like the inverse of that.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've read r/askagp and itsafetish a bit and while I don't comprehensively understand the condition I see these aspects in some stories there. Not sure if you're asking more for cicerosolo's rationalizations or a discussion of AGP as a whole, but hey I typed this up so have it.

intensity - AGP appears to be difficult to suppress and addictive. For many trying to block it out results in a severe relapse. It also appears to require escalation when being indulged.

inanimate objects - Crossdressing and clothes stealing. Stealing may be part of a non-consenting aspect. The attachment to the feminine persona embodied by the clothes appears deeper than as an accessory to sex. I've seen some AGP men go through phases of disgust, throwing out their collection of female clothes, and then relapsing and buying large amounts over again.

humiliation - Many AGP are distressed by an addiction to "sissy" porn. I've decided that humiliation's interplay with male sexuality is something I as a female can't understand, as I see men say sissy porn causes extreme self-esteem issues. In some transformation porn, the change to a female role is humiliating because the female role is lesser, subservient, or a sex object.

Nonconsenting adults - I've seen a desire to 'trick' straight men or go 'stealth' with lesbians, but this seems infrequent and minor.

google defines paraphilia as "a condition characterized by abnormal sexual desires, typically involving extreme or dangerous activities." That some men would prostitute themselves to other men or go to the lengths of transitioning to relieve their urges qualify as extreme and dangerous to me.

https://www.reddit.com/r/askAGP/

[–]uwushallnotpass 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Actually no, this just isn’t true. Many, many women have paraphilias. It’s less common, and they’re much less likely to get a diagnosis even when they show the exact same symptoms as men, because the results are likely to be less violent and less criminal, but women certainly do have them. It would not exactly be a huge shock to find that exposure to pornography at a young age (and especially yaoi with a “romantic” flavour) would create an epidemic of paraphilia among young women.

How incredibly depressing that all these young women are openly saying what this has done to them and there’s no one willing to listen. “Do whatever gives the meat serotonin”. Holy fuck.

[–]QueenBread 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Look, I think it's interesting that you're trying to make it seem like FTM are as dangerous as MTF, but.... newsflash.... they're not. Even if they dress up like males and go in gay males places, they're still a woman surrounded by men. Not comparable at all as a MTF going into a lesbian place, that is.... a man surrounded by women.

[–]gencritcurious[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

if im honest, my naivety probably comes from the fact that i’ve never been in actual physical lesbian spaces (since im a minor). ofc, i agree with the idea that it would be much more frightening to see a man walk into a lesbian bar than a woman walk into a gay bar, but i think that us women need to throw gay men a little sympathy. gay women need to deal with aggressive (if somewhat sparse) males, and gay men need to deal with hordes of rude (but weaker) females. I also think that tifs have much more strength in numbers online, which is where tifs are the most bold and invasive towards gay men.