When it comes to the Bathroom thing, what do you say about the Women who claim they have no problem with TIMs being in the restroom?

submitted by Kai_Decadence from self.GenderCritical

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[–]jelliknight 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Look I honestly don't have a problem with a transwoman in a womans bathroom with me.

But:

A) I'm picturing a single, semi-passing transwoman, in a very public space like a mall bathroom. I'm not picturing 6 bikers hanging out by the sinks in a pub bathroom, combing their beards, talking about fucking sluts, while very drunk lone young women have to push past them in order to pee. I'm not picturing two creepy fellas with pedophile glasses at a highway rest stop, happily inviting me to come in. But they're equally allowed in as long as they momentarily self identify as female. Even I wouldn't put myself in that situation, i'd go home or go somewhere else to find a safer bathroom and that is the problem. Men in women's toilets limits women's access to public spaces.

B) I don't mind the idea of a single TIM because I'm a physically large woman with no history of victimization and who's not afraid to make a scene if the situation calls for it. I don't get to make that choice on behalf of every teen, elder woman, disabled woman, religious woman, timid woman, injured or weak woman, woman with young children, and survivor. If even ONE of them is less likely to use the bathroom because there's a man in it then it's misogynistic. Women's bathrooms exist specifically for vulnerable women to ensure they can access public spaces. If all bathrooms became mixed sex, I'd still use them but there are women who wouldn't or who would use them less. That is the problem. The actual assaults aren't honestly the biggest issue for me, the increased danger of assaults will impact vulnerable women's behavior with a much for far reaching consequence.

C) Bathrooms are a trojan horse. It's also change rooms, dormitories, prisons etc which are a whole other kettle of fish.

D) If me and the woman you're talking to are so comfortable with men then the obvious solution is to write "Mixed sex, All gender" on the men's toilets. Boom. Problem solved. Identity affirmed. She can go in there to piss and show how woke she is while vulnerable women can still be safe. In reality if you did that almost every woman would still choose to use the women only bathroom. Because we are more comfortable with that. And our comfort matters.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Great points, Jelli!

One thing I want to point out, re this:

I don't mind the idea of a single TIM because I'm a physically large woman with no history of victimization and who's not afraid to make a scene if the situation calls for it. I don't get to make that choice on behalf of every teen, elder woman, disabled woman, religious woman, timid woman, injured or weak woman, woman with young children, and survivor. If even ONE of them is less likely to use the bathroom because there's a man in it then it's misogynistic.

What's true of you - and all of us -today is not necessarily what will be the case tomorrow. Many women who were once strong, sturdy, utterly fearless, willing and able to make a scene to defend themselves the way you can at this point in time find that later on down the road of life all this changes due to disease or advanced age. I know so many women who were as you describe yourself but who in time developed health conditions that robbed them of all of it.

I'm such a woman. In my youth, I was strong, athletic, confident and fearless enough that once in the 1980s when a mugger in the NYC subway came at me brandishing a knife I shook my head "no no no" and shouted, "Don't even think about it!" then kicked him in the balls, causing him to fall to the ground writhing in pain. Now decades later I am not only older and weaker and frailer, I'm quite disabled by disease. And I feel quite vulnerable when I venture out, which I don't do much anymore coz even before COVID the world had seemed to become an unsafe and unwelcoming place for a woman like me in my present situation.