all 46 comments

[–]Britishbulldog 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I’d say much more. Women are too accepting, probably because we know we’re powerless. I’d be the same if I wasn’t stubborn as a mule. Men are much better at putting their foot down and calling shit out. Unfortunately a lot of men don’t care for women’s rights só they’re not TRAs, but they’re not allies. They’re ambivalent. And then the men who are trying to invade women’s spaces and the mysogynists are fighting against the women willing to stand up for themselves (plus a few male allies), with many female allies. In other words, we’re f-ked.

It’s weird, in this particular battle, we’re fighting a lot of women, we’re also fighting the left and right-wingers seem to be allies (a- for the wrong reasons and b- yuk), but the war is what it always has been- the patriarchy.

[–]jet199 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

We aren't powerless at all so we can't know we're powerless.

Rather women want to be nice and kind because they believe that makes a better society. Most people here probably believe that too. The hard truth is sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind and that means you won't have everyone like you.

Women also want to be liked because they want to trade on social capital. There's a self interest aspect in believing woke ideas. They indicate you come from the enlightened upper classes. We still use the word "nice" to refer to both polite people and those who come from a privileged background and being woke is seen as the same as being nice. People listen to nice middle class girls.

[–]Porphyria 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I also suspect many of those "nice" women and girls (at least subconsciously) take for granted that it's other women, lesser women, that will be endangered by allowing biological males (the vast majority of whom have zero interest in "bottom surgery") into female spaces : It's immigrant women trying to clean bathrooms for a living that have to worry about suddenly running into a violent , entitled men in those same bathrooms. It's criminal women who have to worry about being incarcerated with violent rape-y trans "women". It's black and hispanic girls that need sports scholarship, not Nice Middle and Upper Class white girls ...and the white girls that were hoping for a sports scholarship are poor, so they don't count. And so on.

[–]our_team_is_winning 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I don't want to make any racial generalizations, but of my three friends who were willing to stab me in the back over Trans Demands, two were white (one middle class, the other lower) and one mixed-race Euro-Black (and middle class). It would be interesting to have a large-scale, controlled study done on this. Definitely though it's wealthier people who support All Things Woke because they generally live in gated McMansions away from the chaos they actively support.

[–]redditbegay 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Its a cleansing of the guard for race and monetary travesties.

[–]chrysthefeminist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We aren't powerless at all so we can't know we're powerless.

Thank you for that.

[–]our_team_is_winning 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

People listen to nice middle class girls.

If so, then those girls need to stand up for women! How is endangering other women on behalf of some men's fetish "nice"? They don't want to make waves? Or they don't want to make MALE waves? If they are "nice" to Trans Demands, then GC (and normal!) women are upset. There are more normal women than there are Trans Demanders. What they really want is to be "nice" to MEN.

[–]our_team_is_winning 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

we’re fighting a lot of women

This makes me so uncomfortable. I fear I'm going to be called anti-woman. I guess it's like being called anti-woman if you're anti-kink, anti-sex work is real work, anti-"porn empowerment," etc. Sadly I know so many Millennial women who are just fine with Trans Demands and will attack me on behalf of a hypothetical Trans invading our space.

Are these pro-Trans women just so desperate for Woke points? Are they simply not educated about reality? Do they have this image of a very "girly" acting young boy who has been bullied his whole life and he's gay and wouldn't hurt a woman ever, he just wants a safe place to pee -- is this what they picture? The Yanivs of the world are totally unknown to them? I don't want other women to be my enemy, but how do we reach them when Woke infects the brain so deeply?

[–]redditbegay 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s weird, in this particular battle, we’re fighting a lot of women, we’re also fighting the left and right-wingers seem to be allies (a- for the wrong reasons and b- yuk), but the war is what it always has been- the patriarchy.

I don't think its for the wrong reasons, the right wingers (that are non extremist) seem to care more about their women (specifically against other males in the bathroom) than modern left wingers do, due to the co-opting of wokeness to silence criticism of any isms.

[–]BEB 18 insightful - 3 fun18 insightful - 2 fun19 insightful - 3 fun -  (23 children)

In my experience, the young, female advocates of gender ideology are more ferocious than young, heterosexual men are in defending trans demands activism. These young women are the F*g Hags of the 21st Century, and I'm not kidding.

[–]chrysthefeminist 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (18 children)

They know exactly what men demand of them. Men demand that women fight men's battles for them while they (the men) just sit on their narrow asses and let the women do it for them.

This demand of men that women fight their battles is communicated in many ways, overt and subliminal, from the very earliest days of a girl child's "upbringing" (a more appropriate word would be "procuring.")

[–]BEB 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

The younger trans maidens I can kind of understand as they've been Queer Theory indoctrinated for the last many years now.

It's the older women who are trans maidens I don't get, especially women in the 55-80 age bracket.

There is a man whom I respect a lot, brilliant, incredibly brave, and an iconoclast, with whom I had the opportunity to work briefly. I assumed his wife, who's a big deal in her field, would be like him, but then I saw her Twitter and she, a woman in her mid-60s, had a whole bunch of TWAW stuff, including TWAW, and I just thought to myself - seriously? You know how hard it was for women to get basic rights and you're spouting this nonsense? I will never get the chance to ask her myself, but if her husband supports her ideas, my respect for both of them is gone.

Same with all the female politicians, especially the lesbians like US Senator Tammy Baldwin, who is pushing the women-hating Equality Act hard, and that other piece of shit, US Congresswoman, Pramila Jayapal - I want to ask them, why do you pretend to be for women's rights when in fact you're advocating legislation that will destroy them?

How can you, older, supposedly intelligent women, who know full well that allowing men into women's spaces will result in a huge increase in sexual assault, still enthusiastically support the Equality Act?

I fucking hate them. Stabbing women in the back for political brownie points while calling themselves feminists.

[–]buttbuttinator 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's the older women who are trans maidens I don't get, especially women in the 55-80 age bracket.

I think there's also a fair bit of ignorance there. My grandmother isn't super progressive, but she was very offended when I said that it doesn't make sense for someone to have a "female" brain inside of a male body because mind-body dualism is a pseudoscientific idea fundamentally based on the premise of a soul.

Then she seemed genuinely shocked when I told her that SRS doesn't actually create a functioning vagina. Apparently she'd believed for decades that somehow surgeons can build the complex structures of the vagina and its related structures and functions (not even counting the organs for reproduction) from scratch when hand transplants are basically at the edge of surgical technology.

[–]BEB 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

There is a great deal of ignorance around this, encouraged by the gender lobby because their whole stance is illogical and would not bear scrutiny.

So I don't blame your grandmother or think less of her for not being up to speed; it's women like Liz Warren, who should be up to speed, and who blather TWAW far and wide, who are the ones who piss me off.

[–]chrysthefeminist 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

It's the older women I don't get, especially women in the 55-80 who are trans maidens.

Women, including older women (that would be my age group; I'm 67), have also been groomed via "upbringing" from their earliest days to fight men's battles for them for as long as I can remember, maybe more. One would hope that they would finally be able to think their way out of that bag and become wiser, more mature and good women, but apparently not all women can, will (or even want to?) do so. This means that the nurturing, mentoring and upbringing of girls from our earliest years is really important.

[–]BEB 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I agree about nurturing and mentoring.

I'm not blaming all older women at all - women are to this day expected to fight for men - just the ones who should know better and the ones in the public eye, especially female politicians spouting TWAW while enacting laws that will destroy women's rights and safety.

[–]redditbegay 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

With very few politicians, most of them are in the profession for their own enrichment, and they parrot whatever gains them donations and votes, this brings to mind the "public and private" policy positions of certain prominent politicians whom were leaked.

Private speeches to investment banks, whilst keeping the public image of concern for the people, infiltrating and destroying all the progressive movements, to assure that big money continues its strangle on our politics.

Our politics might slowly be becoming unfixably corrupt.

[–]BEB 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Definitely.

I woke up in the middle of the night as it hit me that this is also about the commodification of women's bodies. They want our vaginas to sell for sex, they want our wombs to sell for gay men and other rich people's babies. We are nothing to politicians except our bodies, which they hope to use for their own ends until the rich are uploaded (trans-humanism) and the rest of us left to die.

[–]our_team_is_winning 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Among female family and friends close to your age, do you find a lot of TWAW nonsense?

[–]chrysthefeminist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No. Most female friends and family my age are barely, if at all, aware that transgenderism as an issue even exists. Things I post about it on facebook are totally ignored. They get no response, neither any likes nor any counter arguments, no reporting to facebook.

[–]redditbegay 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe you could use a more relevant argument, like "Trans Men are NOT matlock!!!!" That may increase the engagement on your end ;).

[–]MonstrousRegiment 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, the women my own age who believe in this stuff sadden me. Their political analysis seems to be confined to "be nice".

[–]BEB 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think also some older women are so out of touch with what's happening now, like young lesbians being coerced to sleep with TiMs, etc., that many assume that TiMs are the harmless gay cross-dressers of old.

These older women have no idea that the drivers of the Trans Train are heterosexual men with intact genitalia and a bunch of creepy fetishes who hate women.

[–]our_team_is_winning 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

a woman in her mid-60s, had a whole bunch of TWAW stuff

Is this an attempt at "I'm down with the young people"??? I'm at the older end of Gen X, and I can't relate to Generation Billie Eilish at all. Not at all. We both spend too much time online. That is ALL we share. But maybe some older people want to be Gen Z allies?

As for those politicians, my guess is whoever is bribing them, that's whose garbage they spout.

[–]BEB 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Well, in the US Big Pharma is the lobby that spends the most lobbying dollars on politicians, but still... For women my age, life was hard, for women Liz Warren's age it was a nonstop battle, so for her and others her age +, like Dianne Feinstein, to throw away what they and other women fought so hard for, just makes me livid.

[–]redditbegay 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

for women Liz Warren's age it was a nonstop battle, so for her and others her age +, like Dianne Feinstein, to throw away what they and other women fought so hard for, just makes me livid.

Lizzy Warren got a prestigious job for lying about her race... Her college even wrote about how she was 'the first faculty member of color', she was said to be a raging republican as well, at the time.

Once knowing that- her backwards views, and attempts to destroy sanders become very clear.

[–]BEB 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My point is that every woman Liz Warren's age faced a mountain of legal sexism and a society that treated women as stupid, incompetent, vain, trivial and there for decoration, to cook, clean, fuck and birth babies.

So, Liz Warren's personal history aside, for women Liz Warren's age to turn around and destroy all the rights her generation and the ones before and after fought so hard for, is beyond reprehensible.

[–]missdaisycan 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

a woman in her mid-60s, had a whole bunch of TWAW stuff

Is this an attempt at "I'm down with the young people"??? I'm at the older end of Gen X, and I can't relate to Generation Billie Eilish at all. Not at all. We both spend too much time online. That is ALL we share. But maybe some older people want to be Gen Z allies?

There are ninnies in every generation.

[–]redditbegay 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Allish is the attempt to influence thought-noughters. A musician with no talent, no music, telling people to vote for a candidate, without knowing what that politician stands for.

Where was she when the candidate who actually fought for us all was running? Capital F U C K every 'hip' millionaire whos trying to tell US who we should vote for. And Fuck the Rock, too. I dont think his family is struggling to pay the rent during this outbreak.

[–]our_team_is_winning 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I saw that posted just recently (maybe it was you?), the new "F*g Hags" -- so instead of hanging out with gay men, Trans is the new trendy friend to have? Very odd, as gay men are overall non-threatening to women and certainly don't want women sexually, whereas Trans can be violent and will pursue sexual relations with women. "Trans Hag" does NOT sound like a step up!

In my younger days, I had three close gay guy friends at different times, two of whom I did not know were gay when we met (they were not out) -- we liked similar music and going places. Silly me, I thought it was great to have male friends who were totally capable of being good friends with a female. So naive I guess. I hope that didn't make me a "f*g hag"! In fact, it was when those two came out and got totally obsessed with gay clubs and boyfriends that our friendships ended because they had no time for me anymore :( The other guy I knew was gay when we met, and again it was because we were into the same bands.

I'm guessing the Woke Trans Ally women aren't hanging out with these guys because they like the same bands?

[–]BEB 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Do you remember how many young women came to r/gendercritical precisely because they'd been hanging out w TiMs and got freaked out?

So, in a sense, trans maidens are the opposite of f*g hags, in that gays and their hags were often extremely close and got closer as they got to know each other, whereas TiMs and the young women who defend them (the trans maidens) often grow farther apart as they get to know each other.

[–]chrysthefeminist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So, in a sense, trans maidens are the opposite of f*g hags

That explains some things. A straight woman online friend I know, close to my age, is crazy about drag queens, but told me she was repulsed by "trans women." For myself, as a lesbian, I struggle to make sense out of being either a "f*g hag" or a "trans maiden." I can't see what women see in either.

[–]BEB 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think back when many men were Male Chauvinist Pigs, women made friends with sympathetic gay men because they were men, but men who wouldn't hit on women and also many gay men shared a lot of interests with women.

And also, a lot of gay men used to be very funny. I don't see it as much any more. Maybe it had something to do with them being persecuted back then but now they're on top of the pile so don't have to use humor as a defense?

[–]VioletRemi 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

All support, charity and minority protection organizations are filled with women. Sometimes such organizations are 100% consist from women. So yes, women always care more about others, especially about someone who is saying they are oppressed. While men are fully centered on themselves on average. So it is perfect match - men in tresses aka TiMs are focusing on themselves and crying how oppressed they are, and women are running to help them. And I am just like that too, helping everyone and anyone, however I am lesbian and see their attack on homosexuality and can critically think, so it is clear to me all lies of genderqueer ideology and that by helping them we are reducing rights of real minorities and real oppressed groups (like homosexuals, people of color, intersex and disabled people, and of course - women).

[–]yousaythosethings 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My impression is that TRAs who are themselves trans are more likely to be male and aggressive about their activism and that non-trans TRAs are more likely to be female. I see the latter as more following the lead of the former and acting as flying monkeys to them.

I think with that female category there is a large subset of women who are codependent and/or struggle with other identity or self esteem issues and they end up centering their lives around trans-identified male narcissists. With little specific evidence, I very much get that vibe from neonfiona. It seems like her entire life is centered around fictions in support of Riley Dennis. I think he is her only basis for her claim that she is bisexual. And then on top of that, like a classic trans-identified male narcissist, Riley is obsessed with calling them lesbians and their relationship lesbian, when they’re just a dysfunctional heterosexual couple. I really don’t get the impression that she has anything else going on outside this, as this false “identity” is the entire basis of her YouRube channel and the only reason she is considered to have a shred of credibility on social issues.

Narc-codependent couples exist with the sexes reversed. My parents are one example. But in the trans community I mainly see the dynamic of trans-identified male narc with straight female codependent.

[–]BEB 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This guy has it right about TiFs and trans maidens demanding we redefine the word "woman" and associated terms in order to coddle the sensitivities of TiFs and enbys:

"if you voluntarily choose to exclude yourself from the category of women by identifying as a man or as a not-a-woman-nor-a-man, then it is not the responsibility of all women to redefine themselves to accommodate/include someone who rejects their sexed body.

more on this THREAD https://twitter.com/paul_g_mclaugh/status/1313343621668704256

[–]VioletRemi 9 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

Why not redefine men for enbis and TiM's?

[–]BEB 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Your question is logical and TiMs don't do logic.

[–]QueenBread 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

My view on this: men are much more likely than women to become TRAs (just look around and you will see 90% of anti-JKR "transwomen are women" are in fact mysoginist incel males).

However, that 10% of women who support TRAs is a big problem. It kind of gives a "see, women support us!" vibe. And the problem here is that I think women compete with each other much more fiercely than men do. It's a biological fact. Men are quite good at competing with about anything else, starting wars, destroying nature, etc. etc. But women? Women are nice and nurturing with everyone...... EXCEPT EACH OTHER.

I think that's part of the reason why women have been oppressed for so long. For every woman saying it's not fair to be forced to wear a burqa, there's another woman ready to wear a burqa to spite that one woman and "get the man" instead of her. For every woman saying they should have the right to vote, there's been a woman saying women shouldn't vote and waiting for a man approving of her comment.

It's pure biology. A man's main source of competition is other creatures and other tribes, to hunt preys. A woman's main source of competition is other women of the same tribe, to find a mate. TRAs like to pretend biology don't exist, but I insist: we're still animals and we still work by the ancient rules of our species.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's pure biology. A man's main source of competition is other creatures and other tribes, to hunt preys. A woman's main source of competition is other women of the same tribe, to find a mate.

I'm not sure your B&W depiction of "pure biology" is entirely true.

In most pre-agricultural societies, the main sources of calories came from gathering of nuts and other plants, and the trapping, snaring, netting and fishing of small animals, such as insects, rodents, rabbits, reptiles, mollusks, shellfish, and fresh and saltwater fish of relatively small size. Female people and male people both participated in these activities. The big difference was that after a certain age, the female people engaging in these activities also often had infants strapped to their bodies.

In many cases, women were the masters and main practitioners of these activities. Women not only figured out how to catch insects and small animals, they also came up with many of the ways to construct traps and snares, to fish, and the methods to weave/make nets meant for both land and water and to set them.

Hunting of large game done only by males played a lesser or greater role depending on the location and culture. But in general, male big game hunting was not the principal way most peoples in the pre-ag era got the calories to sustain themselves and their young.

Also, I thought biologists generally say that among primates, females are the ones who choose with whom they will procreate, and that being without a mate and thus unable to procreate is primarily a male issue, not a female one.

[–]QueenBread 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also, I thought biologists generally say that among primates, females are the ones who choose with whom they will procreate, and that being without a mate and thus unable to procreate is primarily a male issue, not a female one.

Ahahahah..... tell that to poor me!

No, but really, the whole "women have no problem finding a mate" is sexist bullcrap.

[–]hfxB0oyA 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

(I'm going to go ahead and assume we're talking about actual women here). My experience is yes, but on the other hand, I've never seen a real woman, even though she's pro-TG, threaten to beat up "TERFS". That sort of aggression seems to be the sole domain of those other sorts of ladies...

[–]emptiedriver 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Does anyone know if women are more or less likely to be TRAs / support transgenderism

I think you have two different questions there. I think men are more likely to be TRAs - the actual callers of the crimes, the ones who point to what has happened and shake their heads or explain why it should be a concern. I think men, often already identifying as women themselves, but sometimes otherwise members of LGBTetc or just politically woke, are more likely to lead in the categorizing of how you can support transgenderism: what JKR said is transphobic, trans women should play women's sports, biology is a spectrum, women can have penises - statements like that. But women are more likely to be supporters of it, to say "ah, I didn't realize that it was transphobic to think that, got it.." for the reasons people have said, and then spread the news.

I think plenty of guys will just ignore what they think sounds a little kooky but isn't that important to them, whereas women will feel they have to choose a side and if they're not supporting TRA then they're T-RFs, so they'll speak up loud and clear for trans rights, whatever the party platform on it is.

[–]our_team_is_winning 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

whereas women will feel they have to choose a side and if they're not supporting TRA then they're T-RFs

So we have to get to the root of why "TERF" carries such weight as a thing a woman would NOT want to be. What it really means is a women's rights activist whose focus is on (drum roll) women, not male sexual fetish. How is that an insult?

[–]emptiedriver 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, well "feminist" used to be just as much of an insult, and now that it's a perfectly nice normal thing that everyone can be, it turns out (surprise surprise) it isn't actually a feminist anymore.

[–]redditbegay 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There has to be SOME gatekeeping, to keep the illmeaning antiFems out of feminist mores. They have somewhat taken over some of the nerd fandoms, they have worked their way INTO reddit modship, and the og feminists would be fighting them today, too.