"'Women have very little idea how much men hate them’" - What age did YOU figure out that some men hate XX?

submitted by BEB from independent.ie

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[–]TalkToTheVoid 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think I always knew and understood it, but I wanted it to not be true, so I avoided acknowledging it. I'm in my mid thirties and in recent months the whole TRA issue made me confront all of the ways women are considered and treated as lesser. Also, I don't think of it as "men", I think of it as dominant society. Which has been built mostly by men, but includes women propagating it as well.

[–]BEB[S] 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think I was lucky because I grew up during 2nd Wave feminism, and only started having close male friends in university, and not one of my male friends hated women. I'm still friends with some of them to this day.

And throughout my life I've met decent men, but this whole trans thing has exposed how so many men have a deep-seated misogyny and think women's lives are so trivial that the minute a man comes along and claims womanhood, they jump on it, even when the dangers to women's rights, dignity, privacy and sports are pointed out.

So I don't think all men hate women, but there is a very significant percentage who do, and many of those are on "the Left."

[–]MonstrousRegiment 15 insightful - 3 fun15 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Late thirties. I'm a slow learner.

[–]oneticklishmonster 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

my current age..like a few months ago (when I hit peak trans) and realized women aren't respected, appreciated, or valued by the vast majority of men...like at all. we are "lesser than" to them. period.

I'm in my 30s. I think motherhood and pregnancy brought me to this point.

[–]vodka_gimli 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. That's when I read Woman-Hating by Andrea Dworkin. It's like someone cut a hole in the simulation to peer out of.

[–]meranii 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You mean that SO MANY men hate women? When I started reading anonymous online forums and saw massive collections of men's porn fiction/drawings/pornos, probably in the late '90s or early 2000s. I had always known there were misogynists and that society is sexist etc., but I'd never really experienced how visceral and hateful whole organized groups of thousands of men were in wanting to kill/rape/enslave women, how men growing up in developed countries fantasized online about taking human rights away from women again, how they see us as holes for fucking only and undeserving of basic respect otherwise, how they masturbate to images of severely abused women, etc.

[–]QueenBread 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Very late. Yes, since childhood I felt that sexism was ingrained in society and I got very annoyed by it. But it took these recent years to fully understand and see the scope of hate some men seem to have towards women. It's funny because just a few years ago it looked like feminism made huge progess. Movies and videogames finally were getting all the heroines I couldn't have in my childhood. And then - BAM!! Just when you think sexism is losing, it comes back in full force with this "trans rights" excuse.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Text of the article: https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4047740-Article-about-online-misogyny-in-Sunday-Independent

[–]FlickingMarvellous 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Any chance of posting the text?

[–]BiologyIsReal 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I understood this at my early 20s. There were two main things which contribute to this:

  1. I ended up on a incel website. The naked misogyny I saw there was eye-opening to say the least.

  2. Reading the news and, in particular, reading the comments on rape cases. I couldn't believe all the victim-blaming. The worst comments, though, were the occasional men asking if the victim were hot at least...

Before then, I knew sexism still existed but I understimated how deep and widespread it was.

[–]BEB[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think it's gotten worse. I don't remember any incels in high school or university. Sure, there were creepy solitary boys, but they didn't seem dangerous. The jocks were probably worse in terms of date rape that victims couldn't talk about for fear of losing their social standing.

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think technology has been key in the rise of incels. Before, these guys would have been more isolated. Now, though, internet makes possible for them to find more like-minded individuals and encourage each others in their echo chambers. Also, they can behave as abusive as they want online, and they would face little to no consequence for that. Moreover, there is the fact they can easily find any kind of porn, full of more misogyny, on the net. And I suspect they consume larger quantities of pornography than the average man.

[–]BEB[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly: Violent porn and the ability to connect anonymously with other lonely and sexually frustrated boys via the internet.

[–]chrysthefeminist 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I knew it by my late teens.

[–]penelopekitty 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was old, 45 years old before I fully understood MOST men hate women. There had been many signs throughout my life but when I divorced at age 43 and tried dating, men's contempt, hatred and predatory nature became inescapable. I couldn't lie to myself anymore. I can count the number of 'good men' I've known in my life on one hand.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The first time I recall realizing this was when I was about 13. Whilst babysitting one night, I came across the 1960 Sophia Loren film "Two Women" on PBS, and to my regret I watched it. It's an excellent movie (Loren won a best actress Oscar), but the subject matter - based on a true story of a woman and her young daughter who were gang-raped by soldiers in Italy during WW2 - was harrowing and left me shaken and quaking. I still distinctly recall the room where I watched "Two Women" in vivid detail, even though I think that was one of the few times I was ever inside that family's house.

A few years later in 1970, I read Kate Millet's "Sexual Politics" shortly after it first came out - and boy did that open my eyes about how widespread woman-hating was. Fortunately, I had a father, brother, uncles, teachers, neighbors, bosses, work colleagues* and many other males in my life who were nothing like that at all - and I had many decent male friends and loving, doting male BFs too.

In 1971, I ruined dates by stomping out of movie theaters during showings of the then-newly released movies "A Clockwork Orange" and "Straw Dogs." The guys I went to those movies with were quite nice, but the male attitudes and behaviors I saw on screen were, I felt, monstrous and misogynistic. No way I was gonna spend a Friday or Saturday evening watching that shit.

*Re bosses and work colleagues: I had jobs on the books the moment I turned 16 and was legal to work. But I worked under the table for years before that. I had an uncle who owned a resort hotel, and I'd been been doing various jobs there since I was a little kid. At four I was filling the sugar bowls and folding the linen napkins in the dining room; at six I was cutting up fruit and doing the set up for the bar; at eight I could "man" the front desk, checking in guests - and making change for the Coke machine and pay phone, and selling packs of cigarettes and candy like Hershey bars and M&Ms. However, the managers who trained me often jokingly wagged their fingers at me whilst they instructed me always to push cigs on the kids, and candy to grown-ups.

[–]SameOldBS 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think I've always known it, but when I was younger, I naively believed that feminism would sort it all out in a decade or two. Oh boy, was I wrong about that. The level of misogyny I've seen over the last year or so is beyond anything I ever imagined.