all 54 comments

[–]MaleFriedanFan 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

There is a cultural loophole being exploited. In Japan, there is a common feeling that dreams are dreams and reality is reality; not being able to tell the difference is a sign of mental illness. Because of this, there is no filter on what you can create imaginary stories about, because it is imaginary; it is a temporary escape into fantasy like a daydream, and is not dangerous.

In many countries, dreams are not viewed this way. Dreams are things that you follow, or bring into reality, and that is a sign of achievement rather than a sign that something is wrong. Because of this, there are some things that are usually considered off-limits for fantasy, because of the risk of inspiring copycats in reality.

So when you put the media of a "dreams are just dreams" culture in front of consumers of a "dreams are for following" fanbase, now there are complications.

Hopefully not to imply that one attitude or another is the best here; there are some dreams in Japan that would probably improve the happiness of people if they were followed.

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I have never heard that claim before.

[–]Comatoast 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is an excellent analysis.

[–]penelopekitty 20 insightful - 3 fun20 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 3 fun -  (44 children)

Personally, I think it is bizarre that any adult would be so into cartoons. In my opinion it signifies arrested development and lack of cultural literacy and sophistication. Call me a snob - I don't give a shit. These are not adult interests.

Dr. Ray Blanchard has a theory about why so many trans are into anime having to do with identifying with soft, girly characters. There was also a long analysis of the connection on Medium that has since been deleted - I'm sure for being 'transphobic.' It's messed up, right along with the 'Bronies.'

[–]SharpTomorrow 30 insightful - 1 fun30 insightful - 0 fun31 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

You could make the exact same point for "super hero" movies, star wars, dungeons and dragons and most of entertainment. Of course it's childish. But so is porn.

Dr. Ray Blanchard has a theory about why so many trans are into anime having to do with identifying with soft, girly characters.

I don't think they are into anime so much as they are into something called "Hentai" which has a lot of sexual fetishes derived from Japanese folklore, like "futanari", creatures with a female appearance and male sex organs.

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman 15 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 4 fun -  (21 children)

You could make the exact same point for "super hero" movies, star wars, dungeons and dragons and most of entertainment.

And I absolutely would make that exact point. I agree with Rod Liddle, who wrote in this week's Spectator:

Kidultry is just one more facet of the don't-judge-me cretinous society we now all inhabit and which I refer to as the Disenlightenment. We need much more intellectual snobbery and also the rehabilitation of passé concepts such as embarrassment, stigma and shame. I will judge you, whether you like it or not, you stunted halfwit.

Edit: Gosh. Rather touched a nerve here, didn't I?

[–]Omina_Sentenziosa 27 insightful - 5 fun27 insightful - 4 fun28 insightful - 5 fun -  (13 children)

Well, I am glad to be a stunted halfwit, then. I can' t imagine anything more boring than spending my life only being interested in what you consider "adult" entertainment.

[–]Femaleisnthateful[S] 19 insightful - 2 fun19 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I mean, I think there's a difference between having a strong interest in something, versus creating an identity around it. I'm a huge Trekkie, but I don't, say, cosplay as a Vulcan 24/7. A sizeable percentage of the transgender/ 'queer' community seems to be doing just that, hence my interest.

[–]Omina_Sentenziosa 25 insightful - 2 fun25 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Sure, I agree with that 100%. But the original point (not yours, the one by the couple of posters who brought this up) wasn' t "cosplaying 24/7 and obsessing over it is weird and childish" it was "any adult who watches cartoon/super-hero movies/star wars etc is childish because those are not adult interests".

What is considered adult entertainment anyway? Another poster made this same question and they received my and u/lefterfield' s sarcastic comment back, but seriously, what makes a movie childish and whatever movie that poster was thinking of adult entertainment? It' s a bunch of people who are paid millions to play pretend regardless of how they do it.

By the way, Trekkie here as well!!!!! :)

[–]WanderingWonder 16 insightful - 5 fun16 insightful - 4 fun17 insightful - 5 fun -  (10 children)

What would be considered adult entertainment? Sitting around doing nothing but drinking beer and watching the kardashians?

[–]Omina_Sentenziosa 26 insightful - 7 fun26 insightful - 6 fun27 insightful - 7 fun -  (8 children)

Probably. Even though the Kardashians are soooooooooooooo commercial...

I would bet on some existential french film with subtitles. Because you know, ART!!!!!!

No thanks, I would prefer watching some Pixar movies, or even some anime series than that.

[–]Catbug 22 insightful - 16 fun22 insightful - 15 fun23 insightful - 16 fun -  (7 children)

No fun allowed, only mortgages, overpriced wine, and dry documentaries about economics. Casual enjoyment of animation is for plebs.

[–]hermiona52 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Exactly. People like me (and majority of population), who can watch ambitious movies, go back home and watch She-Ra and other guilty pleasure media just doesn't exist I guess. No fun allowed.

I listen to mostly indie music, but when I go partying and dancing you bet your ass I'll have fun with my friends to mainstream pop or even disco-polo (extremely shitty music from Poland but perfect to dance).

[–]Catbug 17 insightful - 6 fun17 insightful - 5 fun18 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

Especially about animation in general. Like, the animated watership down movie sure isn’t for children.
I suspect op is actually pretty young and still thinks adulthood is somber dinner parties, talk about school districts, and never enjoying anything not designed for a serious purpose. Never seen actual adults believe that, but often in older teens or barely-twenties.

[–]Omina_Sentenziosa 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

That is the stuff that populates my nightmares!!!!

I honestly cannot think of anything more boring and pretentious than a person who holds that view. It' s ridicoulous. It' s the stuff that bleeding art types of actors/writers/directors vomit all the time, and I loathe that category of people. The kind that feels superior because they have such sophisticated tastes!!!!!!!! 🙄🙄🙄

And then they like movies like Wes Anderson' s stuff and "The Lighthouse".

[–]Catbug 11 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

man I love my Robert eggers movies but it’s not a sign of smarts or sophistication. They’re just nifty.

It’s such a weird pseudo-cultured view that anything not avant-garde Arthousey and overtly stating “look at these intellectuals who are quirky and oh so smart” is immature. Usually the competitively “well-read” ones.

[–]Omina_Sentenziosa 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I liked The VVitch (which, as you said, wasn' t smart or sophisticated but was intriguing and entertaining), but good God, The Lighthouse was ridicoulous and pretentious. I watched it because I thought it was a psychological thriller/horror and because lighthouses rock! What I got was two hours of farts and bodily fluids and a masculinity crisis that kicked off because the two men in the movie can' t stand jerking off and fucking mattresses instead of having sex with women. Of course in black and white with some mythological reference thrown in because that' s what real art is about!!!!!

I like weird movies, but this wasn' t weird, it was just dumb.

I absolutely agree with the rest: the worst are the ones who still pretend that they are being artists/mature while exploiting/supporting a commercial trend. Like everyone who made and liked "Joker": yes, it was based on a comic book character (kinda), but everyone who made it did it for art and not because super-heroes are the cinematic trend of the moment! And everyone who watched it is a sophisticated Renaissance Man, not a basement dweller who likes the MCU or The Justice League movie!!! No, sir!!!! 🙄

[–]Comatoast 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I always thought that I was being a shit by hating all of Wes Anderson's pretentious bullshitty stuff. Thank you for this, the world grew a bit brighter tonight.

[–]Omina_Sentenziosa 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

LOL, nah, I am hating on them with you!!!! And I can assure you we are not alone.

I have seen at least half a dozen of his movies because I keep trying to understand what people find in them. Not only I haven' t found an answer, but I end up forgetting what the movie is about because they are so bland that I just forget them. The only one I remember is The Grand Budapest Hotel, and that' s because I watched it like a month ago. By november, I will have forgotten that as well.

[–]lefterfield 9 insightful - 8 fun9 insightful - 7 fun10 insightful - 8 fun -  (0 children)

No, drinking wine while watching historical documentaries or C-SPAN. Read only non-fiction literature or fictional literature that is dry and humorless(none of that childish Shakespeare nonsense).

[–]Omina_Sentenziosa 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Edit: Gosh. Rather touched a nerve here, didn't I?

Not really, I am perfectly ok with being considered a moron by people such as yourself just because once in a while I like watching a guy in a gold and red armour cracking jokes at alien villains.

We' re just curious about what you consider "appropriate" entertainment for adults. What kind of movies do you watch, oh wise one?

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah you really sound perfectly ok with it. Water off a ducks back.

[–]Omina_Sentenziosa 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for the amazing answer, I assume that you are too mature to share your, I am sure, incredible tastes with us underdeveloped plebeians.

[–]tea4two 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The problem is that "anime" is just like saying "filmed entertainment". Just like there are art films, there are sophisticated animated movies that tackle difficult problems (like, say, Grave of the fireflies) and there is... drivel.

What I see as a problem in this case is the kind of media being consumed: with anime you have a whole segment of the industry creating escapist fantasies for isolated young men with no prospects, the intersection of a Venn diagram of high school nostalgia, misogyny, and sexualization of young, compliant girls.

It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

[–]Omina_Sentenziosa 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Grave of the fireflies

Oh, shit, it' s that movie with the kid and his younger sister, right? Why did you make me remember it? Sigh...

[–]tea4two 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That's the one. With the bomb drop and the radiation poisoning and the human suffering of it all.

It's one of those incredible movies I never want to see again.

[–]Omina_Sentenziosa 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have watched it once and never again myself. It was incredibly intense, but definitely something I am never going to watch again.

[–]Omina_Sentenziosa 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think they are into anime so much as they are into something called "Hentai" which has a lot of sexual fetishes derived from Japanese folklore, like "futanari", creatures with a female appearance and male sex organs.

I completely agree. I have stopped following anime and manga 15 years ago, but some of them are just stories in animated form and I still see those series I used to watch/read as well written. They are no weirder than any other live action tv show or movie you could find. They might be childish if the demographic target is children or teenagers, but have you ever tried watching a Disney Channel tv series?

The problem comes, like you said, from the pornographic animation. Some of that stuff is sick and it seems like that is what brings these porn-addicts into nope territory. Of course they then translate that crap into anything else. Including themselves.

[–]buttbuttinator 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think they are into anime so much as they are into something called "Hentai" which has a lot of sexual fetishes derived from Japanese folklore, like "futanari", creatures with a female appearance and male sex organs.

I think that anime is kind of unique among children's-media in how engrained the sexualization is; the difference between hentai and anime is far less clear than you'd hope. There have been rumors about some Nickelodeon shows being influenced by Schneider's foot fetish and there have been other theories about "Totally Spies" having a writer with an inflation fetish, but even these things are incredibly tame and nonsexual compared to the basic premise of "Hip Whip Girl" ("The series centers around the fictional women-only sport of keijo, where players stand on floating platforms and aim to incapacitate or push opponents into the water, using only breasts and buttocks") or "Prison School" ("Kiyoshi Fujino is one of these new boys, but he discovers to his shock that he and his four friends—Takehito "Gakuto" Morokuzu, Shingo Wakamoto, Jouji "Joe" Nezu, and Reiji "Andre" Andou—are the only male students among 1,000 girls..... The boys are incarcerated in the Prison Block together and Kiyoshi is overwhelmed by the discovery that all the other boys are masochists that revel in the punishments handed to them by their attractive but vicious supervisors.").

I think that part of this is that anime seems to have absolutely no artistic integrity. I'm sure that there are anime creators out there who genuinely care about the craft (I love Studio Ghibli), but most of them are A-OK with degrading the "art form" to its most pandering and underdeveloped in the name of developing a fanbase and so making it barely non-pornographic is an easy way to do that.

[–]penelopekitty 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree - all of those things are childish. It's not only Hentai, almost every TRA on Twitter has an anime avatar.

[–]Comatoast 20 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

It may be due to the rate of autism that runs comorbidly along with identifying as trans.

That said, you're not a snob but it's easy to judge. I still enjoy cartoons, especially anime. I'm there for the imaginative space and new ideas that just can't be created without expensive CG outside of the realm of cartoons and literature. I'm not terribly concerned with cultural literacy and sophistication, life is hard enough as it is to worry about what society thinks about an activity that one finds to be relaxing and thought provoking. Plus we live in an age where someone putting a banana on a wall is considered art, things will likely get worse.

[–]penelopekitty 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

Enjoying actual art and literature has nothing to do with "what society thinks." Some of us actually are entertained by things that have some depth. Yes, this requires having a certain degree of insight and intellectual curiosity.

Funny that some of the (seeming) teenagers on here think that being adult is about drinking wine and watching The Kardashians? I don't even know what to say about that. You can choose ignorance, nobody can stop you, but it certainly isn't something to be proud of.

[–]Catbug 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

Maybe give some examples instead of just “art and literature” considering art and literature includes a banana taped to a wall and a trilogy about wizards and magic rings.

Neither seems particularly adult but both fall in under acceptable adult entertainment.

Should we all stare at a Monet? Or is that childish art? Is Goya grow up enough or do we need to stare at plain Dutch landscapes?

[–]WanderingWonder 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

And still they have yet to even give a single example of said sophisticated literature or art and instead resorts to calling us ignorant when they have clearly already decided that any media besides what they consume lacks depth or intellect. Honestly they just seem Like a boring person who probably just blogs all day about assorted cheeses and sits staring off into space thinking of how exciting it is to do their taxes. Or maybe they are just one of those teens who think all adults do is get drunk and fuck every person they meet.

[–]Omina_Sentenziosa 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don' t even care if the stuff I consume does indeed lack depth or intellect: yes, there are times in which I might prefer something more intense, but most of the stuff I consume is indeed pure entertainment with no cultural value. So what? I work in a medical clinic and see horrific things daily, I take care of my senile grandmother who needs constant attention and help with the most basic functions: I don' t want to spend my free time watching "mature" movies about terminally ill cancer patients on a journey for acceptance of their condition or watch/read navel-gazing or pretentious pieces of art.

Some times, I just need to watch Duffy Duck being a moron! If that makes me childish, so be it. Not that I care about people like those posters' s opinion to begin with. As you said, they haven' t even given an example of their sophisticated tastes, I suspect they aren' t even able to explain why the stuff they enjoy is mature in comparison to the stuff we enjoy. And then immediately jumped on the insult and belittling bandwagon. Yeah, certain proof of maturity there!!!! 🙄

[–]WanderingWonder 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I also love how they went about calling us ignorant when they are the ones who dismiss entire forms of entertainment after probably seeing only a gif of some type of harem anime.

[–]Comatoast 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I made it a point to not be aggressive or shitty in my post. I was not asking you to agree, only listed reasons for why I found anime interesting. I don't understand the passive-aggressive tone in your response, or why you think it's necessary to use other poster responses as a way to strengthen your argument. If nothing else, it just makes you sound pretentious, closed-minded and like a jerk.

[–]penelopekitty 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I see I've struck a nerve

[–]Comatoast 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This whole conversation was over a week ago now. If you're going to come back to cultivate asshurt, at least be consistent and do it within a time period where either of us give a shit anymore.

[–]penelopekitty 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was busy living my life, like an adult. You should try to do the same.

[–]lefterfield 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it depends on to what extent someone is into cartoons, and what the attraction is. I used to watch MLP, as it made for interesting analysis into what morals they were trying to teach kids and how they went about doing it. It gave me ideas for how I might write children's literature, and the characters and the stories were cute and charming. And I wouldn't say it was any more childish than say, Harlequin romance novels, which plenty of "adults" read. Or wrestling. I don't think it's childish to like seeing simple moral lessons told in creative and visually appealing ways - it's the same appeal as super hero movies or morality plays or Aesop's fables.

But "Brony" spaces still disturbed me, a lot of it seemed more about objectifying the characters(because of course, they were still men) or of reading some really gross shit into something intended for children, which is inherently creepy. Developing an obsession with anything is very different from appreciating it as a work of art or storytelling, and that's the primary problem I had with Bronies or the anime-queer crowd. If it's the ONLY thing you watch and you can't tell that it isn't the same as real life - yeah, that's an issue.

[–]Catbug 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

What are adult interests?

[–]penelopekitty 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

If you have to ask....

[–]Catbug 7 insightful - 6 fun7 insightful - 5 fun8 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

I have plenty of ideas but apparently there’s a secret list only some of you got.

Condescension is on the list apparently, what else?

[–]Comatoast 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

This has made me question my very sense of self. Alas, I do not meet the standards and refinement of adulthood and thus am certain that I will have to return my children from whence they came; an experience that will be enjoyed by no one involved.

[–]Catbug 7 insightful - 7 fun7 insightful - 6 fun8 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe it’s not too late? Did you try looking at Art? Read a literature?

You can become an adult before it’s too late.

[–]Skipdip 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s is hilarious to be that men actually identify with these sexist characters. I really couldn’t stand them when I used to watch anime. They are so blatantly misogynistic.

[–]Jayine 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Anime is a medium. But the issue I think comes mostly from Hentai, which is essentially porn done in anime style. It can be in anime or manga form, which means as a show or as a comic essentially.

There's a lot to discuss in regards to Hentai that would attract AGP's or more likely gives them the fetish itself. I don't want to get into to it, I mean I've barely dipped a toe in that area and it's like a bottomless pit of deranged and disgusting. It's porn if porn was the worst version of itself and had free reign to be as sick and twisted as it wanted (Think animated bestiality, body mutilation, necrophilia). And in regards to TIF's I think Yaoi has played a massive role in their transition and obsession with being 'gay boys'.

But Anime itself as well as manga/light novels can be so amazing. They explore things that live action TV cannot in mature and interesting ways, and the way the Japanese view the world and morality is fascinating. I've always loved reading, so much so that I even read Manwha's (Korean) and Wuxia/Xianxia (Chinese cultivation novels) and being able to read and enjoy a story that's influenced by a totally foreign culture to mine really makes the story stand out, at least to me and compared to Western literature.

So it's not really anime's fault, at the end of the day, once again, the fault I believe lies with porn.

[–]Comatoast 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Perfectly drawn features that are not obtainable, personalities that are well accepted as agreeable. It's stupid for anyone to want to look like anime girls, because that shit is clearly not going to ever happen.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's specific types of anime: hentai with various kinks on display, harem anime, yaoi/yuri, etc. But you could really make this argument for any animated media. I know a TiF who legit tries to be Miles Morales.

With that being said though I don't think it's anime specifically but rather how much a person uses it as escapism. All of my friends are hardcore anime/cartoon/videogame nerds. All of us would also be considered "terfs" if you heard our views on trans stuff.

[–]SheepleArePeople2 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

People that are socially misfit tend to seek out escapism. Anime is just another popular modern day form. You can see the same thing with video games and other nerdy groups.

People that are misfit and seek out escapism tend to be more susceptible to the trans cult. Transition is like a form of escapism. Autistic kids are weak to it as well.

[–]PetMoreDogs 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The simplest explanation would be there's probably more characters available to self identify with than in western media. It's the same way some people will latch onto a show in the west if they add anything that could be perceived as a non straight relationship even if it's just kinda thrown in haphazardly (I'm looking at your Korra).

[–]lefterfield 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I also think it's because there's so many clearly defined trope characters that are two-dimensional. It becomes something simple for people with social problems to latch on to and project themselves on - same way that people project onto bland book/movie protagonists, but anime characters are also able to be sorted into different personalities like horoscopes. I don't know if that's the intention of every anime creator, but it seems to be the way a lot of westerners interpret it.

[–]Phrovis 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's a fetish for young males