Germany is the next battle field

submitted by Camberian from self.GenderCritical

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[–]Camberian[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I understood you quite alright, but even in Hamburg, Lüneburg and Kiel, all cities and regions where I used to live, you got "clothed" and "nude" days. Usually they are equally frequent. Nothing keeps you from going into a sauna during "clothed" days or to saunas which cater exclusively to clothed clients. They all exist, all over Germany.

And yes, of course a nude sauna will require ALL people to enter it in the nude. That's why it is called a nude sauna. One very understandable reason being, that no one wants clothed people enter just to ogle nude people there.

And as long as we are talking private saunas offered by private business people to the general public, as opposed to state/town/county-maintained facilities, you are perfectly free to use them, or to not do so. You can always choose which you prefer, and it is expected of an adult person, to simply ask prior to appearing there. Personally I have no problem with informing myself first, and yes, I can understand why people would be taken aback, when someone arrives and raises a stink about a policy they could and should have informed themselves about first.

Please define what you consider "bodily autonomy", because - and I lived in quite a few countries in Europe - there are few countries more concerned about bodily autonomy than Germany. Something having to do with the 3rd Reich and how bodily autonomy was taken from people then. Your idea and my idea about this seem to be quite different. Maybe just say the term in German.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

No I think you deliberately don't want to understand what I'm talking about. I can express myself just fine in English, thanks. I live in the area around Hamburg and no, clothed saunas are not a thing in the majority of places. Idk when you visited, but it's forbidden in the vast majority of places to go clothed. I explained all the rest, l and see no point in repeating myself, if you insist there's no problem regarding the value of privacy to your own naked body then maybe you're part of the problem. Since you apparently didn't read my explanation about the mentality I guess you just want to argue for the sake of arguing, so I'm going to stop engaging with you.

[–]Camberian[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Sauna restricted to women can be found here: https://www.ganz-hamburg.de/freizeit-und-fitness/schwimmbad-sauna-spa/sauna-fur-frauen-in-und-um-hamburg-2012.html

"Textiltage" (=clothed sauna days) are offered by all larger sauna facilities in and around Hamburg.

As to bodily autonomy, no one is forcing anyone in Germany to be naked. You can absolutely leave or take any sort of visit to a facility which works with a "nude only" principle.

"Bodily autonomy" means "körperliche Selbstbestimmung". It is quite crazy to suggest that anyone hinders a woman from living in physical self-determination in Germany (except possibly in case of imprisonment/treatment after due process). It is even less understandable when "körperliche Selbstbestimmung" gets mixed up with whether or not someone visits a recreational facility they can just as easily not visit or change.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Wow, you completely ignore the arguments I actually made and pick on how saunas operate (maybe I hit a nerve). Amazing, you completely missed the point(s). I have nothing else to add and won't engage with trolls like you, so ciao.

[–]Camberian[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What are your supposed points exactly? You claim, you can't visit a clothed sauna. You can, I showed you that - plenty of clothed saunas in the area. You claim, people force you to be naked. They don't. No one forces you to use a specific sauna or for that matter any sauna at all. You claim, that Germans have a problem with bodily autonomy, which they don't have.

And then you tie all that to Asian, Muslim and Jewish people in a manner, which is even less understandable, as all these groups have their own baths and saunas which few Germans ever visit.

The last part about how transgender people use those saunas is complete speculation, as of now. How do you expect someone should react to what hasn't even played out yet?

And the troll here is certainly not me. If you look up, you see I started this thread. For a reason which has ZERO to do with potential misgivings about perfectly normal sauna habits in Germany.