The ever-elusive "feeling like a woman" - what the hell is it supposed to be? Rant incoming...

submitted by vitunrotta from self.GenderCritical

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[–]slushpilot 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

they do not want to lose control over women

This spun off into a bunch of different thoughts for me.

Want has to start from some personal motive. That need for power & control is an obvious fact of individual men, but I can't follow the reasoning of how such individuals could decide that the way to regain control over patriarchal values & the entire class of women is to become one.

Such thinking would have to be coordinated with a stated goal, and I don't think it is. Church conservatives can come right out and say women belong in the kitchen etc to rally their movement, but for this subject, it seems too roundabout.

Of course, these individuals can manipulate control over their wives, who now have to contend with them and coddle them and call them "she"... I could see that for sure, but to extend that to a plan that affects culture so broadly in the way it has been?

(A lot of these men—both HSTS and AGP—also seem to have a submission fetish, so I suspect it's a very specific kind of "control" we're talking about here.)

So when you say "they", do you mean individual men, or are you proposing some collective thought? I'm just trying to follow the thread of where the intent (malice) springs from, or if it's actually an unintentional byproduct (systemic result) ...since then it's not a want.

For what it's worth I think their individual reasoning is more likely something along the lines of:

  1. Lust, focusing all their attention on women, women's bodies, feminine clothing, mannerisms etc.
  2. Projection, "women get all the attention"
  3. Self-pity, "nobody pays attention to me"
  4. Self-hate, "I feel so degraded and desperate"
  5. Misattribution & more projection, "this must be what feeling like a woman is like"
  6. Down the rabbit hole

And yes, decadent countries where we have unlimited access to internet porn instead of being forced to live in the real world and build real relationships & meet real people means that indulging this kind of thinking is much more likely.

(In any case, I don't think we can actually rationalize intention from mental illness though.)

[–]penelopekitty 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

The movement, well funded by people like TW Jennifer Pritzker and TW Martine Rothblatt, among others, are pushing this ideology in Universities. It is also being pushed in political parties. The end result will be changing the definition of woman in the law. Once that happens women will de facto lose their right to politically organize for sex based rights because they will no longer exist as a political category. Only gender based rights will be considered valid. It's happening now in the US with the Equality Act, has already happened in Canada with bill C-16 and they've only hit the pause button in the UK on GRA reform.

[–]slushpilot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I absolutely believe these tyrant activists & systemic "sympathetic" rot are the most dangerous thing happening to us right now. For me it's more a question of how did we get here... I guess I'm hoping that if we can explain the (wrongheaded or evil) motives at every step, then this could help unwind it.

[–]threefingersam 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This article I found (probably posted on saidit/ovarit already), talks about "how we got here"

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists

In short, trans lobbyists used deceptive and underhanded tactics to gain traction: They drafted potential legislation for trans issues beforehand (i.e. before govt could make their own drafts). Trans lobbyists used the LGB as a shield and camouflage against scrutiny. They also ensured that their actions got limited media attention to avoid getting noticed by the general public.

[–]tuesday 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That addresses the "how did trans take over now" (and it that respect the article is excellent) but not the "why is every fucking generation of young people so susceptible to totalitarianism and fascism"...

I've already started to wonder, what's next after this trans train gets derailed? Cos there will be another and another attack on common sense, decency and women's rights until we address the root.

[–]WildApples 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Some would argue that the cause is schooling. Books like Dumbing Us Down and Deschooling Society argue that what schools excel at is conditioning children to conform and obey authority.

[–]tuesday 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

This may be an unpopular opinion but I've personally noticed that it is almost always the young who get sucked into various cults and have extreme difficulty recognizing the criteria of fascism and totalitarianism as expressed in a modern socieety. I'd like to see the schools briefly introduce the concept starting about age 10 and then every year thereafter go into more depth. So they are more prepared and inculcated against that tendency when they become older teens and young adults.

[–]MezozoicGay 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

All totalitarisms and dictatorships are starting from indoctrination of children.

In USSR we had things like "the hero of Pavlik Morozov" and "Pioneer Camps", and majority of propaganda was aimed on kids. Pavlik Morozov was half-made icon, based on real event, but changed to look better, it was young kid who went to thought police and said that "my father is saying bad things about communism and want to fight against it", so father was executed and kid became "communist hero and example for all kids", in some stories father is killing Pavlik right before police came to arrest him. Pioneer Camps is camps where kids are taken for 2-3 months (for full summer) far away from their relatives, and there trained to love communism and communist party.

And same with every authoritarian regime and totalitarism.

This time we have things like Mermaids, who are either indoctrinating kids and teens themselves, or making their parents fear for the health of their kids ("if you don't trans them, they will suicide 100%! You don't want your kid to die? Oh, now your kid is trans, help us to fight for trans rights!"). This time it is even more focused on kids, as gender ideology was created by paedo and is supported by many paedos.

[–]slushpilot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Funny how it's always dressed up as wholesome fun too. Pioneers were just like the scouts... with marching and songs and stuff! (Yeah, and so were the German youth... and today it's rainbows.)

[–]forwardback 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

What about parents? Why assume only schools are failing these kids?

[–]BEB 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In the US, Gender Spectrum, which lives up to its name by going into schools to teach that sex is a spectrum, openly admits that it targets minority children.

In the US, especially in California, where a lot of this gender spectrum type sex education seems to be trialed, 40% speak a different language at home, so the parents might not even know what the children are being taught because they don't speak English. Also they might think it's some kind of American thing and as new proud Americans they don't want to rock the boat.

[–]slushpilot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Absolutely! But parents have a tendency to trust schools and not interfere with teachers, so they allow it to be taught. These things don't necessarily come from school though—it could be tumblr... It's really the parents' job to teach common sense.

[–]tuesday 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Want has to start from some personal motive. That need for power & control is an obvious fact of individual men, but I can't follow the reasoning of how such individuals could decide that the way to regain control over patriarchal values & the entire class of women is to become one.

The eunuchs have always been in charge of the harem.

It just used to be more direct. But they can't tell women what to do anymore, not the way they used to, as in a direct order "you will do as you are told little inferior woman who can't vote". So if they can no longer rely on a direct order being immediately obeyed, what else is there besides infiltrating the harem, claiming to be us and then presto, hello world here's what "women" think, now all the rest of you ladies should be nice to the other little women.

It's a very old strategy which has been updated for modern times, that's all.

Guess what? Most romance novels written in the 70's and 80's (and probably further back then that), where the woman in the novels "enjoyed" being harassed stalked and dominated, all those "bodice rippers" back in the day -- most of them were written by MEN with female pen names! Infiltrating groups of women, is what men DO. It's not an accident.

[–]MarkTwainiac 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The eunuchs have always been in charge of the harem.

It just used to be more direct. But they can't tell women what to do anymore, not the way they used to, as in a direct order "you will do as you are told little inferior woman who can't vote". So if they can no longer rely on a direct order being immediately obeyed, what else is there besides infiltrating the harem, claiming to be us and then presto, hello world here's what "women" think, now all the rest of you ladies should be nice to the other little women.

It's a very old strategy which has been updated for modern times, that's all.

Uh, no. The eunuchs who were in charge of the harems (plural) were enslaved men in the Arab Muslim world and Ottoman empire who were castrated when they were taken into captivity. These men did not have to "infiltrate" the harems, they were placed there by their owners/overlords who wanted the female sex slaves in the harems to always be under the eye and thumb of men - just not men who could fuck them.

But the slavers of the Muslim Arab world and Ottoman empire didn't just castrate their male slaves so the male slaves wouldn't be able to screw the female slaves (or other females, either) - they also castrated the boys & men they took into captivity so that male slaves would be unable to procreate, and thus would never have a chance to have a blood bond with a child or have families of their own. For many/most men in most cultures through history, a man's ability to "spread his seed," "father a child" or brood and "leave a lineage" of descendants has been enormously important, and a great source of pride. Patriarchal Muslim Arab and Ottoman culture placed an especially strong emphasis on fathering children, so removing their male slaves' ability to procreate was done as a special way of showing who was in charge, denying the slaves their humanity, and inflicting an extra cruelty on them.

Also, castration itself was very painful; many boys & men died of it and the infections it led to. Others had pain the rest of their lives.

What happened with the enslaved eunuchs and the harems in the Muslim world in the past is nothing like what's going on in the West today. At all. This is not a useful analogy.

What's more, to speak about harems and eunuchs in this way seems like you're making light of the unspeakable suffering of the millions of girls & women who made into sex slaves and the millions of boys & men who were made into enslaved eunuchs during the long era of Muslim Arab and Ottoman slavery.

[–]our_team_is_winning 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lust, focusing all their attention on women, women's bodies, feminine clothing, mannerisms etc. Projection, "women get all the attention" Self-pity, "nobody pays attention to me"

Those first three on your list, totally. Nobody can convince me it's not pure sexual fetish for the AGP. It gets them off, they want the attention back on them, and they do think they're victims with women having "too much power" (they believe it! I don't think they mean societal power, except for the MGTOW who won't shut up about divorce courts, but they mean power to "control" their dicks -- somehow their erections are our fault).

[–]WildApples 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Plus, in today's culture, identifying as trans can get someone a lot of positive attention. A man identifying as a woman may get a much higher level of external validation than he ever could identifying as a man. And I imagine there is the cosplay element for many, the fun of getting to try on a new persona and trying to escape one's self.