all 34 comments

[–]fuckingsealions 10 insightful - 6 fun10 insightful - 5 fun11 insightful - 6 fun -  (4 children)

What in the ever loving Crossdresser in the Rye stream-of-consciousness shit is this

[–]Skipdip[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Thank you, I tried ... it’s supposed to be from their perspective. Yes I realize it’s poorly formatted and fully confusing. It’s hard Edit long stuff on a phone.

[–]slushpilot 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I picked up on it. I like it.

Needs an extra pinch of cognitive dissonance though.

[–]Skipdip[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How so? Please do tell. It’s a work in progress.

[–]fuckingsealions 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Aha! I gotcha.

[–]MezozoicGay 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

You mean LGBTQ+ community, as LGB has no queers.

Have you read the review of some transwoman's "Females"? They are literally seeing "womanhood" like that, or even worse, and wrote book about it: https://www.womenarehuman.com/desire-as-dehumanization-a-review-of-females/

[–]Skipdip[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

It is true that LGB has no queers. But it sure has a crap ton of people who call themselves queer. Most of the QT community is actually LGB. This is largely an internal issue to our own community, it’s horizontal oppression, which is possibly the most frustrating part. It’s demoralizing when vertical oppression gloms on to it, even taking it over, because vertical oppression has the actual power.

As for that article that was really fascinating. I have been honestly wondering about the AGP experience. I can on a deep level understand the trans identity experience as a woman. I just get the psychology of it so much. But since I am not a male I have a harder time really understanding specifically the AGP experience, and to a lesser extent the HSTS experience. People keep telling me to read Whipping Girl. Julia Serrano seems like the motherlode of AGP philosophy. I now might also read Females.

[–]MezozoicGay 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Most of NB and Transes I saw or met from this new generation were all straight people. Unless you are calling "transbians" as legit lesbians and "gay with vagina" as legit gay men. And they all are calling themselves part of "LGBTQ+", so it can look like inner problems, while in reality LGB and TQ+ are opposite sides, and TQ+ want to eliminate ideas of homosexual love, as it destroys genderqueer theory by just existing.

There are many inner problems too, that is true. However, majority of problems are from "allies" and different straight porn addicts.

I now might also read Females.

If reading it like you said "to see inner experience of such people", then it may be interesting read, I think. However, author of book is saying "that is what women are, and I feel like that, so I feel like women", what is wrong on so many levels.

[–]Skipdip[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

A prevailing concept in the gc world that I have seen is that most young women (who are 75% of transitioners) who transition are homo or bisexual. This checks out to me because the majority of TIF are same sex attracted. Not all though, I have met one specifically who wasn’t. Most TIM are heterosexual, with a small percentage being homosexual. This makes sense to me as LGB youth have a tendency to “cross gender lines” at a higher rate than straight children. Liking the same sex is inherently crossing the gender line, and also internalized homophobia and misogyny. 🤷‍♀️

[–]MezozoicGay 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

because the majority of TIF are same sex attracted

Most TIF are heterosexual

I did not understand what do you mean. As it is contradicts.

Previously transsexuals were mostly gay men, and sometimes lesbian women.

Nowadays majority of transgenders are straight people, or straight people with kinks "I am gay man/woman". Gay men and lesbian women spaces are filled with "transbians" and "female gay men" nowadays.

And gender movement is pushing really hard on any GNC people, while gay men and lesbian women are gender stereotype non-confirming just because of our sexual orientation. So pressure is very high here. So yeah, teen gays/lesbians are tend to transition in many cases, however, majority are still just "my hair is dyed into blue color, I am non-binary transgender now".

[–]Skipdip[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The second TIF was meant to be TIM. Ok I’m gonna need to see something to back that up, because the vast vast majority of detrans women I see say the same thing about homo and bi women transitioning the most.

[–]MezozoicGay 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I would not say "the most", but I am pretty sure that percentage of lesbians/bisexuals is much bigger in TiF population, than percentage of gay men in TiM population. Can't back up it with facts, but it is what I am observing.

[–]Skipdip[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Ok so we do agree on that at the very least. I will say that i have heard people like GNC Centric say that the vast majority of TIF are homo/bi. Also I will say that out of maybe 20 TIF I know personally or secondarily (I’m including NB here) only one of them is I think straight. She has a male partner.

[–]MezozoicGay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

For me experience is different, as I am meeting "I am gay too" TiFs more often than I am seeing same-sex attracted TiFs. However, in general observation, I'd predict around 30-35% of TiFs being lesbians or bisexuals, while among TiMs only around 5-7% being gays or bisexuals. Before this transgender genderqueer theory boom, huge majority of TiMs were homosexual (90+%), and TiFs were almost non-existent at all (for every 100-150 TiMs there was 1 TiF).

And increase in TiMs and TiFs is insane. For men it is something around 500-600% increase and for women it 4000% in UK and much more in USA.

Oldschool transsexuals and homosexual transsexuals are against this new trend as well: https://sevenhex.com/why-we-transsexuals-are-leaving-the-stonewall-umbrella/ - there were only around 5000 of them just few years ago, and in few years there now 500 000 of them, while previously in 20 years they only had 4000 more new transitioners.

[–]Skipdip[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Interesting. It makes sense that there would be differences for different places. I’m sorry that you have to deal with “I am gay too” people who expect you to be happy with man vagina, we are just over here being homosexuals trying to live our lives lol - leave us alone! I am curious about that. I wish we could get solid statistics across different countries. Maybe in Ukraine there are more women who just don’t want to be seen as women? Vs in US/Canada it takes the extra push of same sex attraction for most women feel like they must actually be in a different group. I don’t know, I’m speculating. GNC centric actually thought she was a gay man while she was trans (for a decade or so I think) only later to realize she was a lesbian.

I’m familiar with the thing about the trans sexual and the situation pre trans fad. Hopefully the fad will pass soon 🤦🏼‍♀️

[–]AugustiJade 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

What the absolute f***??? Seriously, what a narcisstic perverted creep. And this type of person is most common within the "transwomen" community? Hell no!

[–]MezozoicGay 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I think that one is an extreme example, but many of them are thinking in shades of that.

[–]Skipdip[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

A significant point here is I feel most of these thoughts are subconscious. I tried to keep them separate.

[–]MezozoicGay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

What do you mean?

I've answered about "Females" book. Do you mean that you are feeling in a similar way to an author of that book?

And yes, that all is subconciousness and how the world made people to think it is norm. I was noticing that a lot with japanese men, who were trying to become feminist allies. They were saying or doing things that are very misogynyc or paedo, I was asking why they did it - it hurts women. Answers were almost always "I never thought about it, I am used to act like that, everyone acts like that, it is the norm there, it happens automatically". And that is big problem with our societies and patriarchy. I am trying to do my best to be fair with women (as a gay man), however, sometimes I am noticing myself saying wrong things or doing wrong actions, just because "it is how everyone does and everyone used to it and accepts it is as norm". Society as a system is the main problem.

[–]Skipdip[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Oh.. confusion lol. I was responding to AugustJade who I thought thought that what I wrote was from the perspective of a trans woman. I thought the “what the absolute fuck” was directed at me. If it was directed at Chu I do agree lol.

Yes for sure 100% and yeah I can relate as a white person. I think due to these norms that have been conditioned into us, we are gonna be racist and sexist sometimes. I’ve been trying to get rid of my racism for years and even now that I’ve had this breakthrough I still do racist shit. I’ve found that my newfound ability to take responsibility and correct my action (to whatever extent makes sense) without internalizing shame has made me way more resilient and less racist at the end of the day. I’ve wondered about if this were the same way for males and now here is at least one person who seems to confirm that! It is comforting to hear of males who are actively working on their sexism.

[–]MezozoicGay 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It is interesting point about racism. Here we only have dark-skinned arabs and rarely black-skinned people from Africa in schools or univercities as exchange students (I am not sure how to correctly say about them, I hope used words by me are fine, as here only word for them is the N word and that word has no negativity in it at all). However, some of them are staying and living here. There was even funny moment, when few black people were attacked by pro-russian activists who were speaking on broken ukrainian language, and they answered to attackers on clean ukrainian language without any accent that "I am ukrainian and don't understand your gibberish, go away".

Slaves here were only white people, mostly from our own lands and not imported from somewhere.

In general people here almost not racists (unlike Russia nearby, however, whole their politics is built on xenophobia, so nothing weird in that) and maximum that people of color will encounter here is curiocity or "gazing at something new and unseen" when first meeting them.

Only people who are spilling racism against people of color here are people who are watching american TV or reading english news too much, or watching russian news. Sometimes there is racism against asian peole, mainly against chinese, as people are just afraid of their country.

So when we are getting person of color in our groups or on our job, they are getting no or almost no discrimination, we are not even noticing their color at all, except maybe for rare jokes.

So if take same approach - maybe if society will be different and people will grow up without prejudices and external influence - there will be no misogyny, or it will be decreased greatly.

[–]Skipdip[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Fascinating. How very American of me to automatically assume u were from the US lol. Thanks for sharing.

I’m curious how your experience is being gay in Ukraine? I know it’s a totally different game from Russia, but still, I’ve never had the chance to ask.

[–]MezozoicGay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

For me personally it was fine, and every year it becomes better. For many others it wasn't. Worst were when USSR was breaking up and we were protesting, so new goverment will not re-apply anti-gay laws from USSR. It not fixed homophobia of society, but it becomes less and less of an issue. I am not disclosing my sexuality to everyone, thought.

[–]Skipdip[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So the woman who sees me on Facebook is an actual bio woman. None of this was written from the perspective of a trans woman.

[–]Skipdip[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Um yeah that title was originally for something else I thought I was going to write

[–]Shesstealthy 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (3 children)

Every time I say that or say their proper pronouns or new name I feel good and powerful, like I am doing my part to support them

CIS SAVIOR COMPLEX sit down Becky

[–]Skipdip[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think it is classic virtue signaling, and I don’t think it actually comes from a bad place. I think first of all it comes from a place of internalizing shame. “I feel ashamed for being white and cis because I am part of an oppressive group. I want to do my part to fight the violence that comes from my oppressive group. I want to be a good person and I’ve been told that good people believe these certain things and defend people who are more oppressed. I have heard and believe that poor black transwomen are the most oppressed group of all. Transwomen in general are the most oppressed group, I have heard from credible sources. When this other shameful ciswoman lacks shame and says things that are wrong, I feel deeply uncomfortable. I don’t expect to come across this, because everyone in my sphere believes what I believe, and if they don’t they are the bad right-wingers. When she says “transwomen aren’t women, because transwomen arent females”, all the blood rushes to my face. My heart start beating fast because there is a threat and I have to do something. I have to protect the oppressed group. I scramble for words. Yet at the same time in the back of my mind, I can’t say that what she is saying is wrong. I have nothing to counter it with. I know it’s wrong though, it has to be wrong, if it’s not wrong then it means all the violence is ok. It means that there is no such thing as oppression and I was wrong about everything and maybe it is all my fault. I struggled really hard in my life with oppression on the basis of my sex and also (race, class, same-sex attraction, ability, etc etc). If it’s not actually true or real I literally do not know what to do, it can’t be my fault that I am treated this way. I can not cope if I was wrong about everything all along. Also, I cannot cope with all the added shame of having so much conviction and outward expression that I’m right, but it turns out I am wrong.”

This is how I feel like the process works for a lot of people. It’s how it worked for me 🤷‍♀️

[–]Shesstealthy 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Yes absolutely. Except that oppression IS real. And I know from my experience that the desire to flee the shameful white cishet burden is strong and that you either adopt a suitable alternative identity, or become a holier than thou "ally" constantly struggling with self loathing who works daily to punish herself by Doing Better, OR you go "no I won't take this shit on board! It's their fault!"

[–]Skipdip[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is the truth. After peaking and stopping my belief in gender, race and class (obviously they exist in practice, but they don’t mean anything on an individual level) I felt so liberated. I had never felt so free about race. I no longer approached it with fear which ironically made me less racist! No matter what I’m gonna have be racist sometimes, but I have a much better chance of catching and correcting it, it when I’m not stuck in ID politics, and “making it up” to every black person I see. I also feel I’ve been way more fair to males, and way kinder to females. I saw a video of Trixie Mattel making fun of the way two women were speaking as “being too white”. Instead of clapping along like I probably would have done before, I realized that he was being sexist. I see things clearer now as well.

[–]MonstrousRegiment 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Wow like opening a trap door in the roof of someone else's mind! Thanks for the look in.

[–]Skipdip[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you! I tried

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I can't make heads or tails of this.

[–]Skipdip[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Pro-trans people in my life keep telling me I’m “not listening to them” and it has hurt several of my important relationships. So this is my attempt at active listening. It comes from a combination of behaviours/thoughts/actions I’ve seen from them, and my own internal process when I was where they were. It’s an intuitive projection. I have to find a way to build a bridge or else I really could loose some keystone people in my network