Men vs Women when it comes to biological children

submitted by TalkToTheVoid from self.GenderCritical

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[–]greenish 24 insightful - 3 fun24 insightful - 2 fun25 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

I disagree.

For some people having their own children is incredibly important. That includes men.

A man who would try to coerce his female partner into doing something like that when she wasn't keen would be a misogynist, for all the reasons you stated, but he has a right to leave her over it if it's that important to him, and try to find a partner who is compatible with his life goals.

I know two real families who came to mind when I read your post. In Family A the wife really wanted children and husband knew he was emotionally fucked up (due to losing all his family at a young age) and wouldn't make a good dad. Wife nearly left him over it and his subsequent moodiness and lack of communication, but he needed her because he didn't have anyone else, so he agreed to become a father on the understanding that he would be the breadwinner, and she would do all the parenting. She agreed because that's all she knew from her own father. The arrangement worked pretty well for the couple, but not, and this is the really important point for the children, who all grew up incredibly fucked up.

Family B: Husband came from a big family and loved it, his whole ambition was to be a dad. Wife had a cold, unloving mother and did not want to become one herself, but he was her childhood sweetheart and that's just what you did in those days, so she went along with it. They had 4 kids. He was a 'fun' dad who the kids adored. Her personhood just seemed to shrivel up and she lived on autopilot. The kids loved him and found her distant and strict, because she had to do all the discipline. The kids grew up and moved out, he died, none of them wanted to have much to do with her, and she was left wondering what happened to her life.

So from what I've witnessed, compatibility is absolutely vital fro a successful parenting partnership, which yes, begins hugely unequally, but for the whole of the rest of the kid's life the input of both parents (and quality/dynamics thereof) is vital to their life experience. It's absolutely reasonable to leave someone over if they want very different things from you, and a really bad idea to try to 'settle' and 'make do'.

[–]squintypreyeyes 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Your examples are about one person wanting to be a parent while the other does not. The question in the OP is simply about having biological children vs adopting. Both partners want to be parents though.

What the OP doesn't realise is that natalism is so firmly entrenched in the cultural psyche that, when posed with a question about breeding vs adoption, people will apparently just edit the adoption part out, and answer a question about wanting to breed vs not wanting to.

[–]greenish 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Nope.

I answered the way I did because those are the examples of clashing parental desires that I'm familiar with.

The point I was making still holds true - that it's not a good area to expect compromise from one partner, and it impacts relationships and the kids badly.

I don't accept that wanting your own biological child is a thing called "natalism" that comes from being "entrenched in the cultural psyche", I'm pretty sure it's a basic biological urge, because we are ultimately animals. Not everyone will experience it, because of life experience/personality/individuality/our ability to make conscious decisions etc, but most do and that's as it evolved.

Other arrangements like adoption and step families are just as valid, but I don't think it's reasonable to pretend that that underlying drive doesn't exist in all animals, including humans, or that it's a product of our culture(s).

[–]TalkToTheVoid[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think the examples are relevant to the question I asked, but I appreciate your thoughtfulness in responding. I'm not trying to suggest what anyone in my hypothetical should do. My thoughts and pondering are more about the attitudes that the choices I talked about reflect.

[–]squintypreyeyes 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What do you mean "nope"? You answered a question with irrelevant examples. It's right there. I can see it. Not wanting to be a parent at all is different to wanting (or not wanting) biological offspring.