all 43 comments

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman 67 insightful - 2 fun67 insightful - 1 fun68 insightful - 2 fun -  (23 children)

This is the tactic of the abuser.

Don't leave disagree with me, I'll kill myself!

Edit: I'm going to keep going because soapbox.

We are aware through our work with families that there have been cases of self-harm and even attempted suicide following J.K.Rowling’s statements and the public response on social media and in the press. Surely this must cause us all to pause and question the way young trans lives are being debated in public.

Call me a heartless monster, but that is nobody else's responsibility but their own. Yes, it's awful when anyone self-harms or attempts suicide, but if people are so fragile they are going to self-harm over something they read in the newspaper then that tells me that they are in desperate need of psychiatric intervention, not that the debate that offends them is upsetting. Exposure to issues that offend or upset you builds character, and strengthens or challenges your own convictions. Mermaids should be inveighing against the lack of mental health resources available to these people, not JK.

Trans people are far from being accepted by society and suffer real life discrimination, including physical violence, employment discrimination and everyday harassment on the street.

But so do plenty of people. This is something societies need to work on, but if a woman killed herself because she was refused the CEO role she really wanted, most people would probably rightly come to the conclusion that there were other demons lurking under the surface.

Therefore, as a woman of great power and someone sympathetic to trans young people, we ask her to acknowledge the many young people around the world who fundamentally disagree with her position on trans acceptance and we beg her to at least consider the possibility that trans young people are able to express who they are for themselves.

JK Rowling doesn't have to do shit. 'I am aware people disagree with me, but honestly, fuck them right?' - would that be fine then? JK isn't stupid enough to think that people don't disagree with her. The fact that she has doubled down in spite of massive disagreement makes her statements all the more profound. She has not been cowed into silence or retraction.

She's not denying that trans people can't express who they are for themselves. A tweet of hers literally says 'wear a dress, call yourself what you want' - what is that if not 'considering the possibility'? What they mean is 'come round to the pov that...'.

J.K. Rowling rightly speaks of brave ‘detransitioned’ young women. Yet, does she consider trans people, living openly in spite of public hostility, less brave? Are those who have fought for decades to be treated with respect and dignity in a society that ridicules and demonises them, less brave? Are those children and young people who state their true gender in the face of rejection from family and friends less brave? At Mermaids, we support people no matter the path they take and that of course includes those who transition, detransition or retransition.

It doesn't matter how brave she thinks they are, bravery and being right aren't mutually exclusive options. You can be brave and wrong, and cowardly and correct.

J.K. Rowling may see that as part of a ‘radical trans rights movement’, we see it as our duty. If we are considered radical by some, then we will accept the badge and wear it with pride. We do not consider it radical to listen to young people and support them without prejudice. We do not consider it radical to believe that trans adults were once trans children. We do not consider it radical to believe that children and young people know who they are, for themselves, without arbitration from strangers. If standing beside trans young people and their families is radical, then please J.K. Rowling, be radical.

JK does not consider it radical to stand up for the sex-based rights of women and girls. JK does not consider it radical to believe that 'trans children' deserve psychiatric intervention and protection from invasive, irreversible medical procedures. If standing up for women and girls (and many others groups besides) is radical, then please, JK, be radical.

We hope people will soon see the damage being done to vulnerable people by the nature of this polarised, misinformed ‘debate’.

/r/selfawarewolves

We repeat our call for people of all perspectives to refrain from threatening and aggressive behaviour and we utterly condemn anyone sending threatening or abusive content to J.K. Rowling. We ask J.K.Rowling to make a similar appeal to those using her name in their profiles whilst threatening and abusing trans people and their friends, supporters and families.

That is fair enough, and I think JK herself (without wanting to put words in her mouth) would condemn in the strongest possible terms anyone who used her name to threaten or abuse anybody else.

Again, as we have asked before: please, do not speak about trans children and young people, until you have listened to them first.

I agree in principle that people shouldn't spout off about things about which they know nothing, but a larger part of me just wants to tell these people to fuck off.

[–]BEB 44 insightful - 4 fun44 insightful - 3 fun45 insightful - 4 fun -  (5 children)

Wonderful post!

The only thing I disagree with is that in my years of lurking on GC spaces I have never once seen a feminist or a supporter threaten a trans person.

And as for "abuse" - if calling a spade a spade is considered "abuse" well, maybe, but if that's the definition of "abuse" then maybe everyone needs to suffer it in order to toughen up for the real abuse coming our way, because we all live in a world that couldn't give a fuck about our feelings.

And Mermaids acts as if JK Rowling and other trans activist critics have NOT listened to trans children and young people when, in fact, we've listened too much. We know that many of these kids are gay, or depressed, or autistic, or have suffered sexual/physical abuse, or ADHD - we know these kids are searching for something to make them feel better, and we know that BY LISTENING TO THEM.

tl;dr STFU Mermaids

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman 30 insightful - 1 fun30 insightful - 0 fun31 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And as for "abuse" - if calling a spade a spade is considered "abuse" well, maybe, but if that's the definition of "abuse" then maybe everyone needs to suffer it in order to toughen up for the real abuse coming our way, because we all live in a world that couldn't give a fuck about our feelings.

Honestly you've hit the nail straight on the head there. I don't want to sound like my grandmother complaining about snowflakes, but whatever happened to mental resilience? I read The Coddling of the American Mind about a year ago, and the authors mention three 'myths of fragility' that are really apt here:

  1. Whatever doesn't kill you makes you weaker.

  2. Always trust your feelings.

  3. Life is a battle between good people and evil people.

Never mind what Alexander Solzhenitsyn said about the line between good and evil cutting through the heart of every human being, magic lady hurted my feeeeels!

[–]denverkris 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

"because we all live in a world that couldn't give a fuck about our feelings."

This right here. I am not responsible for YOUR feelings. YOU are. You want to be she but you're a he and I called you a he and that's hurts your feelers? not my problem, and I honestly don't care. I don't have time to worry about every inane fucking made up aggression that hurts your feelers. Especially when its the truth that bothers you. I was not put on this earth to be your emotional support system.

[–]jelliknight 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Totally! The views of the whole fragile woke brigade (not just the trans aspect) is: "I can't be expected to control my emotions. You have to control them for me."

Sorry not sorry, I take responsibility for my words, my meanings, and my actions. NOT your responses.

[–]luckystar 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And Mermaids acts as if JK Rowling and other trans activist critics have NOT listened to trans children and young people when, in fact, we've listened too much.

THIS THIS THIS. The average person has no clue what's going on. Most of us are former "allies".

[–]Head_Sherbert 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree with you. An important point that has often been lost: Listening doesn't mean agreeing.

[–]denverkris 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

I've been a child/young person. a VERY gnc/lesbian/bi one. They can fuck right off. I can't imagine what might have happened to me if I were a child today. The thought of it is horrifying.

[–]just_lesbian_things 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

a VERY gnc/lesbian/bi one

Lesbian or bi? You can't be both lol, they're mutually exclusive.

[–]denverkris 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

You think? i don't know. It's almost as if some people think they're straight for a while, they get married, have kids, then come out as gay or lesbian. It's almost as if you may think about yourself as straight at one point in time, bi another, gay or lesbian another. But you let me know how you'd like me to express myself so that it makes you comfortable and I'll see what i can do. I mean, would you prefer that I say I was a very gnc young woman who was very confused about her sexuality and doesn't know how to label herself at that point in time, would that make you feel better? I mean, maybe if I had had someone like you around to police me in those early years, gee, who knows?

So what are your rules for sexuality labels? clearly any woman who was, say, married to a guy for 10 years must be bi and not a lesbian right? Sorry if i disturbed your delicate sensibilities.

[–]crazyangryfemale 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You’re both right. Bisexual & lesbian are exclusive sexualities. Yet additionally: in growing as a human being & having experiences, you thought you were bisexual at one point, lesbian at another; there is of course nothing wrong with that.

If I may say so... I don’t think just_lesbian_things was challenging your right to discern your sexuality over the course of your life. They themselves were clearly protective in their comment of the term “lesbian,” and who can blame them given how its ‘definition’ includes attraction to men nowadays.

It wasn’t clear at all in this small sentence fragment what the combination of the two sexualities meant—the “/“ just made it seem as though “bisexual/lesbian” was your sexuality. It didn’t connote a distinction between them to me.

Seems like a miscommunication. You explained what you meant & it wasn’t that you were simultaneously bisexual & lesbian, therefore rendering just_lesbian_things’ comment irrelevant to your reply. I can’t know how painful & confusing it must have been for you during that time. People are eager to misunderstand you when you’re a young woman, even more so when you’re gnc. I would be a dog off the leash to anyone who tried to tell me who I am; I really do understand where you’re coming from, even if I can’t know completely all you’ve been through. I really don’t think there’s any ill-intent here. We’re all protective of who we are as lesbians & Im glad for that. I hope I didn’t overstep any boundaries in commenting on this exchange—just felt like I might be able to help. Famous last words

[–]denverkris 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, I can see how what I said could have been misconstrued as meaning simultaneous when I definitely didn't mean it that way. I appreciate your thoughtful reply. And yes, I definitely feel bad for todays lesbians, especially young ones. It seems like they're being assaulted on all fronts.

[–]just_lesbian_things 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I definitely feel bad for todays lesbians, especially young ones.

But not bad enough to listen when one is telling you that words have meaning, right? If one does that, she can fuck right off, right??

[–]just_lesbian_things 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You think? i don't know.

Then listen to someone who knows. Words have meaning. Lesbian means homosexual woman- it's not an umbrella term any more than "woman is". If that does not describe you, then you are not a lesbian. It's not rocket science.

But you let me know how you'd like me to express myself so that it makes you comfortable and I'll see what i can do.

It has nothing to do with my comfort and everything to do with accuracy and proper word use. Mentally ill men misusing words to make themselves feel better is how we got into this mess in the first place.

clearly any woman who was, say, married to a guy for 10 years must be bi and not a lesbian right?

You're projecting your own issues. I've defined the word lesbian for you; in fact, it is easily searchable on the internet. You decide if that word applies to you or not. If it does not, then you are not a lesbian. You have people inventing hundreds of sexualities these days, you're free to peruse the different labels to decide which best fit you, or make up one on your own. But lesbian already has a meaning, and that meaning is mutually exclusive with bisexual. Pick one or pick neither, not both.

[–]denverkris 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Fuck off.

[–]just_lesbian_things 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Nah

[–]SaidOverRed 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Sigh. Let's be pedantic about common parlance: Lesbians are women that have sex with other women. All bi women who partake in that are therefore lesbians. The other kind of lesbian chooses to exclude men, which is a step in the right direction.

[–]just_lesbian_things 33 insightful - 2 fun33 insightful - 1 fun34 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

No. Lesbians are women who are sexually attracted to women exclusively. Lesbian isn't an umbrella term. Homosexual is not an umbrella term any more than woman is. Lesbians are homosexual women. Bisexual women are not lesbians.

[–]MarkTwainiac 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Lesbians are women that have sex with other women.

Uh, no. A lot of straight women have sex with other women to please men - porn actresses & women in prostitution in particular. Many straight women who are not porn performers or prostituted have sex with other women to please their male partners, too - in three-ways, or so the guy can watch his partner in "girl on girl" action.

What's more, at some point in their lives a lot of straight women have had sex with other girls/women out of curiosity, or for comfort.

Back when young people grew up in close physical contact with one another, as opposed to spending the bulk of their lives online, it was quite common for tween & teen girls & women in early adulthood to engage in sex acts with each other as a normal part of adolescence exploration. When I grew up in the 1960s, it was also common for girls to practice various sex acts - from French kissing to humping & in some cases even being fingered & vaginally penetrated - with other girls so they/we would be good at doing such acts with/to boys/men later on.

Lesbians are girls/women who are sexually attracted only to people of the same sex. Bi & straight girls/women who have sex with other girls/women aren't lesbians - not even temporary ones.

[–]yishengqingwa666 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

No.

[–]kwallio 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Why do all trans manifestos read like they've been written by a fourth grader.

[–]endless_assfluff 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Fantastic. I dropped by to say most of those things.

The "if you don't accept trans people as their chosen gender, they'll kill themselves" argument is so manipulative and insidious, and it's really all they have. Every libfem I've met recognizes that "if you don't date me, I'll kill myself" is an intimidation. It's clear that (a) the person saying it is using suicide as a bargaining chip to get the recipient to do what they want and (b) that a person threatening suicide is not likely to kill themselves, because people who actually do want to commit suicide don't give others a chance to stop them and see no other options. It's just straight-up emotional manipulation. So they've come up with empowering tactics to counter this abusive trash, not a single one of which involves giving in and dating the guy to keep him happy. But all that great intuition goes out the window when TRAs start threatening suicide if they don't get what they want.

Not only that, but you could rephrase

We are aware through our work with families that there have been cases of self-harm and even attempted suicide following J.K.Rowling’s statements and the public response on social media and in the press.

as

Nobody has killed themselves in response to JKR's statements.

And I also take issue with

J.K. Rowling rightly speaks of brave ‘detransitioned’ young women. Yet, does she consider trans people, living openly in spite of public hostility, less brave?

Their arguments don't so much rely on misinformation (sans the gaslighting about biological sex) as they rely on controlling which narrative the public sees, and here's an example of them using faulty logic to do just that. First, the faulty logic. They seem to have interpreted JKR's statement as "If a young woman has detransitioned, she is brave," and the following paragraph responds to this as if JKR had said "If a transperson did not detransition, they are not brave." That's the inverse. That a statement does not imply its inverse is fifth-grade-level logic. Nothing JKR said actually reflected poorly on transpeople, but they're deliberately misrepresenting her statements to make it seem that way.

And misinterpretation is all they have here because they can't reveal what the actual purpose of this tactic is: silencing dissenters. Oppressors tend to create a one-way system where the oppressed are expected to have empathy for the other party, but they do not have to have empathy for the oppressed; and that the oppressed should be held responsible for their actions, while the oppressors should not. Both parties have emotions and both parties sometimes do problematic things. Someone who cares about truth and can empathize with both sides would readily admit that. A person who does not care and just wants to push their side will be incapable of acknowledging the other party's feelings and incapable of taking responsibility for their wrongdoings. An attractive strategy for these people is to keep drawing attention away from the information that doesn't serve them---the other party's emotions and their problematic actions---and towards the information that does---their emotions and the other party's problematic actions---in a way that looks fair, balanced, and true, but is actually betraying that their position is not based on fact, and that they fundamentally have to ignore information in order to hold it.

Since I used a break-up as an example above, I'll use one here, too. Consider the following exchange:

A: I'm sorry, I don't think we can be together anymore. What you said at the restaurant hurt me too deeply.

B: But my feelings were hurt too. When you broke up with me, it hurt me.

A: I understand that the break-up is emotionally stressful, and it is for me too, but I just couldn't go on.

B: But I'm hurt too. I'm hurt by you painting me as some kind of monster.

A is acknowledging B's feelings; B can't acknowledge A's. A is acknowledging the consequences of their own actions; B cannot. A is able to empathize with B. B is not able to empathize with A. So because both A and B see B's side but only A sees A's side, the narrative will keep getting pulled in B's favor. Unless A exposes what B is doing. (If it's a private discussion, A needs to cut it off because just continuing the discussion itself is allowing B to pretend A can still win, when really nothing A can say will convince B because B's not listening.)

So if we go back to their statement:

J.K. Rowling rightly speaks of brave ‘detransitioned’ young women. Yet, does she consider trans people, living openly in spite of public hostility, less brave?

What is actually happening here is that JKR is saying "We should listen to detransitioned young women" and they are responding with "But what about the people who don't detransition?!" Classic misdirection. JKR has clearly and repeatedly expressed empathy for trans people, so her statement from the beginning has been "We should respect and listened to both transitioned and detransitioned people." And what Mermaids is really saying here is "don't listen to detransitioned people," but because saying it outright makes them look bad, they try to redirect any discussion about detransitioners by interrupting with "but what about US?!"

Because they don't have another choice. Detransitioned teenagers are living, walking proof of their wrongdoing. Even acknowledging their existence challenges their incredibly weak claim that anyone with gender dysphoria is trans. Even if they were to pretend to empathize with detransitioners and say "We know detransitioners have it hard," I can all but guarantee you that the next word will be 'but' and the subject of the next clause will be transpeople.

This paragraph reads alright to most people but clearly exposes that their argument is selfish.

Ugh. I'm trying to write an essay about how crappy these arguments are and how to counter them, and it's so hard to not call them out when they pop up.

[–]leaveandletleave 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is a really helpful breakdown, thank you.

[–]leaveandletleave 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Forgive me if this acronym has been invented before, but if they’re now claiming to be radical, are they TIRMs (Trans-Inclusive Radical Misogynists)? I admit it’s not as catchy as TERF, and we have TRA already. There is something darkly humorous about being able to say a man has gone full-TIRM, though. Them and (ideally) babies.

[–]MarkTwainiac 33 insightful - 1 fun33 insightful - 0 fun34 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Trans people are far from being accepted by society and suffer real life discrimination, including physical violence, employment discrimination and everyday harassment on the street.

No group suffers - and long has suffered - real life discrimination, physical violence, employment discrimination and everyday harassment on the street to the extent or as unrelentingly as girls & women - all just for being of the female sex.

The situation is better or worse depending on which society & which historical period we're speaking of, but basically girls & women across the board in all countries & eras have been subjected to the most sustained campaign of discrimination, physical violence, employment injustice & street harassment.

Yes, black men in the US are targeted & subject to brutality by the police, & they are discriminated against, as they were in South Africa under apartheid. But black men in the US & in SA now and in the past have targeted black women and subjected black women to violence, brutality & discrimination as well as street harassment.

Jesus, look at what Ike Turner did to Tina & the attitudes that male black civil rights activists like Stokely Carmichael had towards women of all colors. From the accounts of Nelson Mandela's life I've read & seen on film, even he appears to have subjected the two women who eventually became his wives to sexual harassment on the street before they agreed to date him.

Jews in various time periods & different countries/cultures have been enslaved, discriminated against, demonized, harassed on the streets & subjected to torture & genocide just for being Jews. But Orthodox Judaism privileges boys & men and allows them to subjugate, oppress, stigmatize, demonize & discriminate against girls & women.

And so on. I could give many other examples...

But never, ever have women's rights advocates of any era taken to public platforms to threaten that unless male-supremacist societies mend their ways and start being nice to us, girls & women are going to start committing suicide in droves... and when that happens, it will be male supremacists' fault!

In actuality, in response to misogyny, patriarchy & the bleak, narrow realities of their lives, female people around the world probably commit more acts of self harm than any other group - from EDs & cutting in the affluent West to women in Afghanistan setting themselves on fire to escape arranged marriages & male sex abuse & violence.

But it wouldn't occur to women's rights advocates anywhere to try weaponizing all this self-harm in the way that Mermaids & the the genderists do in the case of the sacred caste of trans. Coz adopting such crybully tactics would require women to be convinced that the world sees us as worth listening to, believing we possess the power to induce guilt & compliance in others & the world at large, being utterly convinced we have inherent rights that entitle us to get far better treatment on demand, having considerable or enormous self-esteem, & believing that the world at large gives a shit about our pain & whether we're dead or alive.

[–]NecessaryScene1 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You've just crystallised a thought for me.

"JL" on Graham Linehan's site recently referred to them as the "Munchausen Mums of Mermaids", which is a great turn of phrase. There is a school of thought that says that the surge in infant transing is the newly trendy form of Munchausen-by-proxy. (Quite distinct from the female ROGD surge, which is substituting for previous teenage female acts like anorexia or cutting).

And Munchausen-by-proxy is very much a female thing. I just went to check if that's true, not a stereotype, and Wikipedia cites a study saying it's 93% female. (I'd be curious to see more stats - have recorded Munchausen-by-proxy cases gone down recently? What about if you add back in childhood trans children? I'd be willing to bet there's a substitution effect).

And I think that wraps up the whole package. Women know that the world (and maybe their partner?) doesn't give a shit about them. But they know they might give a shit about their children. Hence some women go off the rails and use their children. They don't use self-harm - they harm their children.

And Mermaids is a whole organisation founded by these women - no experts, just a group of women who are supporting and justifying themselves in their acts of harm.

And, obviously, it now follows that the organisation itself is engaging in blatant child manipulation. Why wouldn't it? They don't see what they're doing individually, so why would they see it in their group's public statements?

But we see it.

[–]MarkTwainiac 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Good points. Jazz Jennings' mom is another example of this. She's always been the main driver of the push to trans Jazz.

Also, mothers who go Munchausen usually don't seem to have much going on in their lives other than being mothers. They don't appear to have or previously had jobs or careers that bring them much satisfaction, prestige, clout, accomplishment, self-esteem or financial benefits. None of them seem to be involved in sports or athletics, to engage in artistic or creative activities, to have fulfilling social lives, or to have hobbies or interests like gardening, cooking, reading, book clubs or Bingo. Although many do go to church/synagogue - or did in the past. Until they became "trans moms" & cheerleaders for the LGBTQ-WTF, most were not politically engaged, did not do any volunteer work, and did not appear to give a shit about the oppressed & marginalized. Many were - and still are - extreme homophobes & sexists, so it's laughable that they are now supposedly aligned with the "alphabet people," welcomed by establishment "LGBTQ" organizations, and are lauded for their supposed work on behalf of sexual minorities.

Other examples of mothers inflicting harm on their kids to get the attention, applause & hipster status that as middle-aged moms they otherwise would not be able to obtain are the mothers of those poor "drag kids" who go by the stage names Desmond Is Amazing & Lactacia.

[–]BEB 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I read a study that found that mothers of, I think it was TIMs, tend to have a certain, I think it was, personality disorder. Could have been Borderline Personality Disorder.

Sorry to be so vague; I'll have to find the study and post it.

Anecdotally, all the mothers of "trans" kids I've encountered have seemed to be smug narcissists, so I wouldn't be shocked if some of these kids are victims of Munchausen-by-proxy.

[–]BEB 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Great post.

[–]leaveandletleave 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Your last paragraph is so incredibly accurate and also deeply, deeply demoralizing. You have to work hard to get what you want when throwing a tantrum isn’t an option, I suppose. Thanks for the insight.

[–]Killer_Danish 32 insightful - 2 fun32 insightful - 1 fun33 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Or, y'know, the more LOGICAL avenue: dysphoric and homosexual youths are being RUSHED through hormones and irreversible, sterilizing surgeries, and committing suicide when they realize that they've been DUPED by the medical-industrial complex.

[–]jet199 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Actually there's never been any evidence of mass suicides of trans kids at all.

Teen suicides are rare and often make the papers. Certainly in the UK each is recorded along with possible reasons.

http://imgur.com/a/urqi1R7

I know of only one child suicide related to gender dysphoria, ever.

[–]Daraincork 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Now you said it. No wonder trans kids are often depressed. They have been horribly let down and misled. Then they are left to pick up the pieces alone. If they complain about the outcome, well : they weren't 'really' trans. This scandal will take decades to sort out.

[–]lavender_menace 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

not to mention the drugs they are prescribed which cause depression as well.

[–][deleted] 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1299448309472468998 Allison Bailey talks about it

adult concerns about trans activism cannot conceivably be a risk to children‘s mental health, such as to cause suicidal feelings, unless they are being manipulated by the adults around them, planting & then reinforcing that message.

if an adult parent used & maniuplated a child in this way, social services would be called immediately. No organisation tasked with caring for children should be allowed to deploy suicide in such a nakedly offensive way. This is an emergency. This cannot be ignored.

Corresponding ovarit discussion: https://www.ovarit.com/o/GenderCritical/2764/mermaids-is-now-accusing-j-k-rowling-of-causing-child-suicide-attempts-allison-b

[–]Marsupial 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Suicide is very socially contagious. It's extremely dangerous to push the narrative that 1) that the only choice is to transition or live a miserable life on the brink of suicide because you're not the gender you were "supposed" to be and 2) that suicide is an expected result when somebody critiques the trans movement.

Mermaids are being extremely irresponsible and are transducing a narrative that's extremely harmful to children, young people and other vulnerable populations.

[–]lumiosestone 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I hope she sues them for libel.

[–]lefterfield 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is so fucking abusive and irresponsible of an organization that pretends to be a charity. These people have blood on their own hands and they try to smear it on J K Rowling. They are the most reprehensible sort of monsters and I hope they all see prison time. Every fucking one of them.

[–]onemoredaydream 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wow, so now it's a woman's fault.

This is the ultimate expression of this neuroses. Be miserable, blame all your problems on someone else, endlessly abuse them when they refuse to accept their mischaracterizations.

[–]buttbuttinator 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There was an image board that I used to post on, a TRA would constantly bring up suicide attempts whenever anyone called him out on his predatory behavior and I would always post something from an article on what to do when someone threatens to commit suicide in order to control you. Of course, the other TRA orbiters would get mad at me for spamming.

Abusers know just what will make us react. Many abusers use the manipulation tool of threatening suicide or self-harm to keep us tethered to them. Why does this work and what can we do to keep ourselves emotionally and physically safe?

Why this tactic works

Abusers manipulate those around them at every turn. They do so for the sole purpose of getting what they want. When they manipulate, intimidate and threaten us, they are using the FOG technique. First coined by Susan Forward in her book, Emotional Blackmail, the FOG technique describes how manipulative individuals use fear, obligation, and guilt to trigger someone into reacting.

When abusers threaten suicide or self-harm, they are causing the fear to rise within us so that we don’t leave. In this way, threats of suicide are being used as a method of control. They may go so far as to claim that we don’t care enough about them and that they have lost the will to live. They may sit crumpled up on the floor and cry their fake tears just to make us fear for their safety. Or, they may even loop an extension cord around their neck while making the same threat of suicide or self-harm. This is all so that they can trap us into staying with them.

Their goal is to cause us to feel guilty if something were to happen to them. They are playing on our emotions of love for them and they know that. They may even say, “Well if you really loved me, you wouldn’t let me kill myself.”

Be wary though that if emergency services are called, they will work their manipulation magic on emergency services personnel to convince them that nothing is wrong and that they are okay.

You aren’t responsible for them It is often said that we aren’t responsible for another person’s actions. This is especially true when it comes to abusers. We are not responsible for what they say and do to us. We are not responsible for their mental health status, either. We are also not responsible for what they do when we leave them.

They want us to think we are, though. They want us to believe that we determine their happiness. They want us to think we are doing something wrong if they make these threats. They may say we aren’t trying hard enough or that we don’t love them enough. They may even say if we worked hard on ourselves to “get better” then things would be okay and you’d be one big happy family.

But, if there is one thing to take away from this article, it’s this: You are not responsible for them. You are not responsible for whether they decide to commit this action. What we are responsible for is ourselves and our emotions and actions. We get to decide what we do with our lives. We decide what to feel. We are not responsible for them, and likewise, they are not responsible for us.

[–]Sittingonarainbow 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Manipulative and abusive, just like the ideology it promotes.

[–]Marsupial 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Ah, emotional manipulation. "If I kill myself, it's YOUR FAULT"

[–]grixit 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We are a charity, operating under the same scrutiny as any other in the UK

Horrific, if true.