The weirdest and most illuminating thing about the JK Rowling controversy for me was the absolute focus on TiMs, even though by trans logic it was TiFs that were most directly misgendered by making the point that everyone who menstruates is a woman. As usual, the focus is solely and forever on males

submitted by marmorsymphata from (self.GenderCritical)

I even stealth pointed the lack of TiF focus out to a TRA-follower friend of mine and she expressed shock and confusion at the realization. They don't even know the movement is controlled by selfish men.

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[–]leaveandletleave 39 insightful - 6 fun39 insightful - 5 fun40 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

That’s because women pretending to be men is nothing new and we don’t care about how much discomfort they have to go through to keep up the illusion. All women secretly wish they were men, according to - you guessed it - men.

Freud has a lot to answer for.

[–]NorfolkTerrier 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Those who identify as trans men get a lot less positive press/focus, but they also receive less backlash from feminists or conservatives. The main concern over them is that they may become victims of ideology, rather than that they may victimize others, which reduces the rhetorical volume.

The media doesn't know how to respond to feminists'/others' concerns about what this means for young lesbians, tomboys, or any other teen girls who are not fully comfortable in their own skin. Usually this is barely addressed and then the pivot is to TWAW. This focus may be harder to deflect.

[–]materialrealityplz 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Even in Daniel Radcliffe's letter dunking on JKR, all he mentioned was 'transwomen are women', lmao. No mention of transmen, no mention of women's rights that are in conflict. Nothin'~

[–]ekitten 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Radcliffe's statement also linked to The Trevor Project's "guide to being an ally", which claims to explain the difference between sex and gender, but doesn't explain gender and just provides the circular "gender describes our internal understanding and experience of our own gender identity". https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/trevor-support-center/a-guide-to-being-an-ally-to-transgender-and-nonbinary-youth/

[–]our_team_is_winning 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Good observation! "I might have a period, but I'm all man!" Maybe I don't pay enough attention or maybe TiF aren't getting as much press? Or maybe they're easier to ignore? It's women who have periods while claiming to be men who fit this category, not men who think they are women who don't have periods. What a trainwreck anyway.

Maybe I'm wrong, but TiF strike me as self-loathing, rejecting their own bodies as a form of escape. I don't hear about them wanting to get validation by making men uncomfortable. (Maybe they do though! I think men do NOT want women in their segregated spaces, for sure, but I do not know if men feel violated the same way women do?) Whereas AGP are doing this as sexual fetish and a big part of the thrill is violating women's rights.

[–]IAmSatan 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Note that this doesn't apply to all trans people, or even many. I write about the vocal TRA ones. As a gay guy, I can't say I feel particularly threatened by transmen in any context. My main problem is the boxer ceiling ones, the autohomoerotic transmen. Getting into gay places for validation and shaming people into dating them. They seem hellbent on getting a gay guy specifically. There're plenty of bisexual and """pansexual""" guys for them, but I guess it isn't validating. :s

[–]sisterinsomnia 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This might be a more distant connection to the same thing, but worth thinking about:

The female body is in the process of being completely erased (we are vulva-owners or cervix-havers or uterus-carriers instead) by being made gender-neutral (pregnant people, menstruators), while the male body stands as it always has, with no attempt to increase inclusive language in health screening messages on, say, prostate cancer (all ejaculators, time to check your prostates).

I think this difference is driven by a kind of misogyny, the hatred of the female body, which might be shared by trans women, trans men and those nonbinary people who have that body. Nobody in those groups wants the female-bodied people to have a name, even though absence of a name for that group makes fighting sexism extremely tough.

And yes, I think the trans women are dominating much of the activism. Natal women are expected to be inclusive and kind and that plays into the very sex-patterned developments, too.

[–]luckystar 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Libfems, the stalker subreddit, and TRAs in general often chant that the existence of trans men makes all "T*RF" theory collapse. They only say that because they have only a superficial understanding of what radfems believe, and they've mostly been exposed to cherry picked examples of people using GC theory to further actual transphobia (stuff like the people who say literally every trans woman is a predator-- obviously if that was the only thing at hand then trans men wouldn't exist).

To clarify, I can only speak for myself really but I consider myself a radfem and I would absolutely include trans men and "AFAB" non binary people in my feminism. Obviously many (most?) of them won't want to be included, so I won't force it on them or anything, but I believe the goal of feminism is to fight for the rights of women as a sex class. I think oppression is based on something you can't change, and you cannot literally change your sex, therefore I still think trans women and "AFAB" non binaries are oppressed on the basis of their female sex.

There have been several recorded cases of men (both trans identified and not trans identified) raping pre/non-op trans men; male on female rape is inherently more dangerous and harmful than other forms due to the risk of pregnancy and the difference in physical strength between the sexes. In one case a trans woman raped a trans man while saying that they wanted the trans man to "have [his] non-binary babies". Even for people who claim to transcend biological sex, the laws of nature don't change.

So even if they don't want us to fight for them, I will fight for the rights of trans men. I don't think they're all confused lesbians or "betrayers of womanhood" or whatever. Some are indeed self hating lesbians or just self hating women period -- detransitioner stories tell us this. However I also believe that there exist trans men who have gender dysphoria and feel happiest living life "as a man", and I support their right to live their life the way that feels authentic to them.

Anyway, that was a huge foreword (mostly targeted at stalkers/lurkers) just to say: I find the focus on trans women to the exclusion of trans men in the trans movement a very telling example of how bio sex matters even in spite of gender identity. This prioritizing of trans women over trans men happens at all levels and in all directions (internal and external supporters). I can think of no other group of people for whom women's voices and concerns are consistently prioritized over those of men.

In my observation, the most prominent trans men (people like Buck Angel, Calvin Garrah, etc) are all realistic/accept that biological sex exists. It is more the trans women who want to pretend it doesn't exist. This to me strongly mirrors how white people say they "don't see race", whereas no non white person would say the same. When you're oppressed for something, you know you can't just ignore the reality that it's there.

The fact that "trans women are women" is a slogan while "trans men are men" is not (except as a half hearted after thought, ONLY after "trans women are women") is another sign.

The fact that r/askgaybros and other gay men subreddits are allowed to exist while lesbian subreddits are banned and the "trans inclusive" one left standing is overrun with "transbians" who dominate discourse, make every topic about their "girldicks", constantly require validation, etc.

The fact that we have people like Amanda Jette Knox gaining praise for centering her life around her male spouse's "journey to womanhood", whereas the "trans widows" are shamed -- women must stand by and support their man no matter what. But what of trans men? Where are the droves of middle aged moms deciding to go on T, grow a beard, call themselves "Aiden"? Imagine if these trans men actually existed -- what do you think their husbands would be expected to do? How many of their husbands would brainwash themselves into thinking they're gay? Or be shamed for not being 'supportive' of their spouse?

The way trans men are ignored, cast aside, and diminished by the very people who are supposed to be their community to me is just further stronger evidence that biological sex matters in a way one can't simply "identify" out of. The way women with families virtually never become trans men shows to me that biological sex matters.

[–]SaidOverRed 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It probably is controlled by selfish men. I wouldn't know, I stay away from people like that.

But... that wasn't the most illuminating thing. The real reason everyone paid any attention to is it that they realized the conservatives were right all along: "the wolves devour themselves".

[–]3MistersAndAMissy 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I didn’t even think about that!!

Great point