Marsha P. Johnson Probably Didn't Start Stonewall, and Might Not Have Been Trans. Does It Matter?

submitted by Skipdip from reason.com

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[–]MarkTwainiac 37 insightful - 1 fun37 insightful - 0 fun38 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Marsha P. Johnson definitely did not start the Stonewall riots, as he wasn't even in the neighborhood when they started.

Johnson also was a gay male transvestite - not "trans" as it's meant today. Back when Stonewall happened, the term "transgender" wasn't used coz the propagandists for unbridled male libertinism known as queer theory who eventually invented the term for nefarious political purposes hadn't come up with it yet.

In 1969, the men who got surgeries to reconfigure their genitals to vaguely mimic female genitals were known as transsexuals. Gay men who impersonated women as personal expression, because they had internalized homophobia, because it got them off, or because they were prostitutes serving a niche clientele with particular proclivities were known as transvestites. Gay men who mockingly impersonated women to put on an outré form of male dominance display intended as entertainment mainly for other misogynistic gay men were known as drag queens. Straight men who impersonated women because of their sexual fetish were known simply as cross-dressers. Everyone back then - psychologists, sexologists, people involved in sexual liberation movements, and the general public - knew that these different types of men existed, and knew the distinctions between them. It's only very recently that they became all lumped in together under the one unifying umbrella labelled "trans."

[–]anonymale 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

No need to rely on a pro-prostitution, pro-porn organisation like that site:

Probably didn't?

I was uptown and I didn’t get downtown until about two o’clock, because when I got downtown the place was already on fire. And it was a raid already. The riots had already started.

[–]Skipdip[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yes that’s what I heard as well. I wasn’t trying to endorse the publication, but thanks for pointing that out. Can you recommend an article from a better publication that conveys the same information?

[–]anonymale 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Here's the link:

https://makinggayhistory.com/podcast/episode-11-johnson-wicker/

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Transcript of excerpt from that podcast where Marsha says in Marsha's own words that he was uptown when the rioting at Stonewall started, and he didn't get there until "the place was already on fire":

https://twitter.com/BDimyon/status/1140217341827043329/photo/1

[–]Shesstealthy 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But the fact that they are publishing this is good because it will be taken more seriously by the QT crowd who won't listen when it's from sites and people they abhor.

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Such a dumb take.

How many people are missing whole swathes of news and events because the "good" publications they read aren't printing them.

[–]anonymale 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No media source is neutral. Reason's directors are free-market thinktank wonks, and its money comes from the Koch brothers. What people are missing by not reading it is a trendily-packaged free market agenda. It exists to remove limits on capital, including when that capital buys women's bodies. As we've shown, it's been common knowledge forever that Johnson wasn't trans. Reason published on this woke myth as part of a strategy of chipping away at the left, not because it cares about anything. Capital only serves capital.

[–]MarkTwainiac 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Fuller, more accurate accounts of what actually happened at Stonewall that counteract the myth that "black transwomen" Johnson & Sylvia Rivera started it all:

http://www.back2stonewall.com/2020/06/lgbt-gay-history-stonewall-riots.html

https://medium.com/@sue.donym1984/stonewasnt-a7f82a372d50

[–]Shesstealthy 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"She begged not to be put into a box. Today's activists have done the opposite" My issue with this movement in a nutshell.

[–]PriestTheyCalledHim 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know people who actually were at the Stonewall riots which occurred on multiple nights, they all said Sylvia Rivera and Marsha P. Johnson did not start them. At the time in late 1960s USA, and NYC the riots were seen as basically a non-event or yet another protest or demonstration which were common then. Gay men, bisexuals of both sexes, and lesbians were actually at the Stonewall riots and were all involved in the fight for LGB-then called the umbrella term 'gay'-rights. Transsexuals were not.

[–]Skipdip[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Combatting trans revisionist history and mythology

[–]OrangeFirefly 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I haven't read the article.

I would say that Stonewall only added the T to LGB in 2015. If the Trans element was so important in the early days of the movement, it would have been LGBT from the start.

[–]Skipdip[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wow! Thanks for sharing I didn’t know that

[–]TurtleFuzz 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Great read, thanks for sharing

[–]yishengqingwa666 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://web.archive.org/web/20190601200853/https://medium.com/%40sue.donym1984/stonewasnt-a7f82a372d50